Is the Pitts able to compete with today's mono-wing aircraft? Maybe not at the world aerobatic champianships level but what about everything below that? I have loved the pitts since I was a youngster... I like the Christian Eagle also, how does the Pitts compare? I worry about buying an Eagle because it's a kit and who knows about the quality. Your thoughts are appreciated.

-Mike

• RE: Pitts Special ,TomParsons, 20:27z, 06-10-03
  • RE: Pitts Special ,Mikie, 21:06z, 06-10-03
    • RE: Pitts Special ,TomParsons, 14:17z, 06-11-03
  • RE: Pitts Special ,djpacro, 12:19z, 06-11-03
• RE: Pitts Special ,andy, 02:37z, 06-13-03
  • RE: Pitts Special ,Mikie, 01:00z, 06-14-03
• RE: Pitts Special ,Patty_Wagstaff, 22:32z, 06-15-03

Others are certainly more qualified than me to answer, but here's one person's opinion anyway.

My understanding of the conventional wisdom is that a Pitts or Eagle is capable of flying anything up through Advanced (one level below the Unlimited flying you'll see at the WAC). However, the monoplanes are said to "show better", owing to their longer wingspan, clean lines, crisp response, higher roll rate, and often higher vertical lines. My impression is that, given equally-skilled pilots, the high-performance monoplane (Edge, Extra, Sukhoi, etc.) will outscore a Pitts or Eagle.

That said, I also think the pilot, rather than the airplane, is the limiting factor in the performance of most pilots. Once you get to the S-1S/T and S-2B level of Pitts, I think there are not too many pilots who are better than their airplanes.

Tom P.

Thanks for all the great info Tom! What year is your Pitts? Did you have some sort of pre purchase survey done on the plane? I personally am interested in the S2A or S2B model. I have seen what looked like some decent prices in the 1980's to 1990's year range, from 60k to 90k.

Thanks,
Mike

It's a 1976 airplane, built from a factory kit and certified as an experimental homebuilt. It was stripped to the skeleton and refurbished in 1991. I did lots of homework in the process of buying this airplane, some evidence of which you can see in prior threads on this board.

In the course of my airplane search, I eventually compiled a pretty standard list of initial questions. By the end, I was able to ask questions that helped me quickly reject a lot of airplanes that looked good in the ads.

So with the airplane I ended up buying, I'd I asked the by-then standard one ton of questions to start, along with looking at a couple dozen pictures the seller sent me. Then I scouted for a local Pitts expert to do a detailed pre-purchase inspection. That inspection cost me some money, but it was well worth it in the assurance that I was making a good buying decision. Finally, after pretty much deciding I'd make the purchase, I went to look at the airplane for myself, ask the seller another ton of questions, and learn from him some of the particular personality quirks of the airplane.

S-2As and Bs are fine airplanes, if you are sure you really need a two-place. To rephrase a point that Kendal alluded to, I think many people would say that an S-1T can perform better than either an S-2A or S-2B, on less gas. Beware of seeming bargains with run-out engines. For a Pitts, 800 or 900 hours SMOH is a lot of time, and not long until the next major overhaul is needed. A major engine overhaul for a 4-cylinder Pitts can cost $15K to $25K, and I'm sure it's a lot more for a 6-cylinder.

Hope this helps!

Tom P.

This is one debate which could go on for another 30 years - its been going that long already. Just to add a few more comments:

The transition to a monoplane from a Pitts can take some time - not in terms of handling it but just to get to the stage where a person would score the same in the monoplane as he/she had been doing in the biplane prior to the transition. A Pitts scores pretty well if you fly it pretty well. i.e. you lose some points in the figures. Fly a monoplane pretty well and you lose more points because the judge can see the error so much easier. Fly the Pitts very well and you do a tad better because the judge can't see that you're flying it all that much better. Fly a monoplane very well and its obvious to the judges so, some people say, its worth an extra half a point - but to get that half a point you need to fly it very well and that takes a lot of practice.

Pitts are still flown by winners at Advanced level in local contests. Personally, I wouldn't fly the 200 hp S-2A or Eagle at Advanced level these days, too hard on the airplane in my view.

I wouldn't worry too much about buying an Eagle - the kit is/was first class and no builder would dare build one that wasn't close to factory standard. All the welding would have been done at the factory. Of course, check it out thoroughly.

In my hand I have a magazine article from 1978 comparing the Pitts S-2A and the Eagle - comments by Debbie Gary and Charlie Hillard.
Comments in favour of the S-2A:

Some comments in favour of the Eagle:
better visibility sideways
lighter elevator and more responsive
snaps 50% betetr than an S-2
two and a half vertical rolls compared to two in the S-2
it is much cleaner ... indicates over 160 in cruise
better view of instruments (pilot has to read instruments in front cockpit so I have to disagree with this one)
softer landing gear, less maintenance, landings easier

All round - they say the Eagle is a 25% better airplane.

Regards,
Dave Pilkington

As others have said, the Pitts can compete, it depends on the pilot. One of the pilots who flies in the Northeast competes at Advanced level in an S-2A, and regularly comes 1st or 2nd. He's flown it in Unlimited, but that's definitely too hard on the airplane. I don't think that Advanced is too hard on the S-2A; you just have to work a little harder as the pilot . As far as the S-1T, S-2B, S-2C's are concerned, IMHO they're all definitely capable of competing and winning at the Advanced level in regional contests; competing at Unlimited levels is a bit of a stretch for them.

If you're considering buying an aerobatic mount, most of the Pitts models will do just what you want, and be a fun and friendly airplane (modulo ground manners for many years.

Also as others have said, be careful in your pre-purchase, and make sure you are either prepared to immediately overhaul the engine, or find an airplane with a low-time engine (low hundreds) that has been well-maintained.

Andy
Pitts S-2A

Thanks to all for the awesome replies!

-Mike

Dear Mike

Thanks for joining our forum.

The Pitts is still a great airplane and has not outlived its time! You can fly and enjoy a Pitts for years in many levels of flying - from sportsman competition on up. The Eagle is also a great airplane, but as I've never owned one, perhaps some others can shed some light on the major differences.

In competition flying, it is still the pilot who has to make the airplane look good. There are some who think a monoplane makes it easier to look good, but I can tell you from experience, a monoplane can only do so much for you. Actually, a Pitts can make a pilot look better than a monoplane because the lines are shorter and you can be a degree or two off without it being seen by the judges - unlike monoplane.

But, first, please...before you fly a Pitts - SPIN TRAINING is of the utmost importance!

Have fun,
Patty