The VPC will be converting to a subscription-based system on July 17, 2003.

As you know, VPC Crew Membership dues support the Virtual Pilot Center (VPC) costs of operation, and keep us ad-free. Unfortunately, our voluntary VPC Crew Membership/donation plan has not generated sufficient funding to continue down this path.

While we'd like nothing more than to provide free access to all, the cold hard facts of the Internet is bandwidth costs money, and the more we use, the more we need to pay. We also understand and GREATLY appreciate the non-monetary support folks have contributed to our Forums and such in the form of knowledge and participation, but in order for us to continue to provide the facilities for us to share ideas, information, and camaraderie between aviators, we need to be able to pay for the bandwidth we use.

Beginning on July 17, 2003, only VPC Crew Members and those with Guest Passes will be able to post messages and have non-anonymous access to VPC facilities.

VPC Crew Memberships include:
· Exclusive VPC Crew Icon
· FlightAdventures POP3 CREW eMail Account - *no SPAM or obligatory advertisements
· FlightAdventures Web eMail access
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· Access to VPC Crew-only areas
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· Local signature graphics file storage
· Free VPC OffLine Reader Registration (VPC OLR)
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· And our bonus gift to you for your support, a one year subscription to Flying Magazine

To read more about what VPC Crew Membership provides for you, please see https://www.flightadventures.com/cgi-bin/pilot_shop/index3.html

These are hard times for all of us. We've created a lower-cost class of VPC membership intended for those that only want/require access to our Forums, Chats, and Flight Terminal with no other VPC Crew benefits. This new class of memberships takes the form of Guest Passes. The cost of an annual VPC Guest Pass is less than $0.50 a week. Please see https://www.flightadventures.com/cgi-bin/pilot_shop/index3.html to sign up and for more information.

We hope that you understand our situation and will do your part to continue to support the VPC so we may continue to thrive and uphold the outstanding quality and value that the VPC represents.

-VPC Administration and Staff

* We're not responsible for SPAM if you give your Crew email address to SPAM'ers via newsgroups, unsecured chats, sign up for "Internet offers", etc..

• RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17-03,WScofield, 13:36z, 08-05-03
  • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,vgbaron, 15:48z, 08-05-03
    • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,WScofield, 21:04z, 08-05-03
      • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,vgbaron, 01:52z, 08-06-03
        • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,jimh, 18:11z, 08-08-03
          • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,WScofield, 00:24z, 08-09-03
            • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,Emile, 12:03z, 08-09-03
            • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,jimh, 13:58z, 08-09-03
              • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,vgbaron, 21:52z, 08-09-03
                • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,jimh, 10:05z, 08-10-03
                  • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,WScofield, 11:46z, 08-10-03
                    • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,jimh, 15:13z, 08-10-03
                      • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,WScofield, 00:36z, 08-11-03
                        • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,jimh, 16:32z, 08-15-03
                • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,Mike_Greenwood, 03:28z, 08-11-03
            • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,Mike_Greenwood, 03:19z, 08-11-03
              • RE: The VPC goes Subscription 07-17...,jimh, 16:51z, 08-15-03

I can't help but notice that there was not one single reply to this message. (Until now) I also can't help but notice that, generally speaking, it has been awfully quiet all across this forum for a long time. Other than a few posts by me, there has been nary a peep about the long-awaited FSCOF, released on 7/29. I find myself wondering why? Has the change to "subscription only" closed out some of the regular active voices (such as Ray Proudfoot, who was a vocal opponent)? Where did everybody go? Is it just vacation time? Is anybody out there?

William

Heck William -

I'm still here <G>. My guess is that Ray decided not to subscribe. Personally, I subscribe because it's a place of reason where intelligent people can discuss aviation related items without having to deal with inane comments from children who should not be allowed on a computer. To me, the cost of subscribing is a small price to pay and I feel that I am contributing to a community that will, I hope, continue to grow.

Vic

> I can't help but notice that there was not one single reply to this
> message. (Until now) I also can't help but notice that, generally
> speaking, it has been awfully quiet all across this forum for a long
> time. Other than a few posts by me, there has been nary a peep about the
> long-awaited FSCOF, released on 7/29. I find myself wondering why? Has
> the change to "subscription only" closed out some of the regular active
> voices (such as Ray Proudfoot, who was a vocal opponent)? Where did
> everybody go? Is it just vacation time? Is anybody out there?
>

-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Vic Baron
-OLR.PL v1.80-

Hi Vic -

>To
>me, the cost of subscribing is a small price to pay and I
>feel that I am contributing to a community that will, I
>hope, continue to grow.

Right. That's why I'm still here too. And I don't mean to sound the pessimist, but I do notice how quiet things are. I'd like to here more voices, and fewer echoes.

William

>
> Right. That's why I'm still here too. And I don't mean to sound the
> pessimist, but I do notice how quiet things are. I'd like to here more
> voices, and fewer echoes.

Amen to that. I've added our URL to my tagline when I e-mail or visit other flight forums. Just to let people know were here.

Slow but sure ----

Vic

-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Vic Baron
-OLR.PL v1.81-

Hi Vic and Bill,

I just looked in and noticed you are feeling lonely.

Like you, I paid my subscription for the same reasons. I pine for the old days of the Flightsim Forum, but those days are not coming back, for while it was the best and almost the only FS resource, now there are dozens. Some of them leave a lot to be desired though!

I'd like to contribute more, but i'm far from an expert, and almost never up to date, as I operate on the, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", principle.

At the moment I'm not buying FS9, as I've become so addicted to flying with Wideview, that I'm waiting for a new version to support the new MSFS, before changing.

See you around, Jim H.

Hi Jim

>At the moment I'm not buying FS9, as I've become so
>addicted to flying with Wideview, that I'm waiting for a
>new version to support the new MSFS, before changing.

I have been having a ball with FS9, I must admit. I really enjoy the different historical aircraft that have been added - having owned and flown a 1946 Aeronca Champ. And I don't know what they did with the flight models for the helicopters, but for the first time I have been able to fly them times more than crashing them, and having a blast.

I have thought several times about getting into the multi-monitor thing, but haven't yet done so. Any ideas about how to get started? (Without going off the deep end with 19 monitors, 8 computers, and 12 video cards.)

Regards,

William

LAST EDITED ON 08-09-03 AT 12:05z ()

LAST EDITED ON 08-09-03 AT 12:05z ()

Hello William
>I have thought several times about getting into the
>multi-monitor thing, but haven't yet done so. Any ideas
>about how to get started? (Without going off the deep end
>with 19 monitors, 8 computers, and 12 video cards.)

I simply run FS2002 (FS9 is not available yet in Belgium) on 2 monitors , a 15 and a 21' , both are linked to my GF4 TI 4600 . the installation was easy, just plug and play . Of course I did change a few things in the vid driver .I run 30 FPS (this is the limit I do allow) on normal sceneries ,less FPS on heavy sceneries (example EBBR 5 to 8) , the screens run with different resolutions . It works perfect..I like it .

Regards
Emile
EBBR Brussels
Belgium

Hi Bill,

I see Emile has given you a guide to a first step forward.

I have that combination myself. I have forward view, including the panel, on my main monitor. On top, I have a second monitor for FsNav's moving map and Peter Dowson's Adv Display, showing the menus for Radio Contact V3.

Getting into Wideview is a big step further. How big depends on any spare hardware you might have to hand, whether you can find some good used stuff, or how deep your pockets are!

I was just lucky. In my home office I had a No1 computer, with No2 as a complete backup for business. My daughter in law's firm was closing down a site with 70 computers on, so I was lucky enough to acquire two monitors very cheaply (the computers themselves were useless). I had a third computer built with a lot of spare bits incorporated to keep the cost low.

My three computers are networked together, with 2 and 3 showing full screen views 45 degrees either side. The difference is immense. On the taxiways, in the circuit, I no longer have tunnel vision, and can see accurately when to turn. The outside wiew of the passing scenery, when you are flying low and slow is really something.

Flight simulator is a completely different experience, and is well worth all the work (and expense) of setting it up.

I hope I might be whetting your appetite for multi monitor flying. There is a picture of my little setup in the logs section.

Cheers, Jim

Hi Jim -

Space requires me to stay with a single monitor ( for now<g>) but I saw a pix on another site of some fellow who had 15 monitors and 8 computers!!!! Had the add on radio stack and throttles too. Can't locate the link but it WAS a a sight to see.

What's frustrating a bit for me is that I have the hardware ( I used to do a bit of computer consulting) and have a few monitors and enough parts for at least two more computers lying around. Just that in my little office where I have my main systems, there's not enough room for addl monitor setup until I remodel. SWMBO and I are negotiating the remodel as we speak <G>.

Regards,

Vic

-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Vic Baron
-OLR.PL v1.81-

Hi Vic,

Good luck with the remodelling. My better half won't even dust in here, so I get to do more or less my own thing.

My office is 10 feet by 8, with a custom built desk six feet long. That has enough space for my three monitors, with room at the end for a scanner. There is a pull-out drawer below, with a keyboard and trackball for No2 computer, and same for No1 which also controls No3 via a two-port KVM switch.

A good site for pictures of Wideview rigs is:
http://web.onetelnet.nl/~gsalden/
Press the Miscellaneous button.

You get a good idea of how compact my own setup is from the picture in the Adventure Logs.

If you do get the chance, go for it!!

Cheers, Jim

Hi Jim -

I wonder if anyone has gotten very far linking up a laptop computer. I have one I use regularly for work, and an older one no longer in active use. They can both drive external monitors, although of course they don't have the latest 128 mb video cards. (Actually, neither does my Athlon 1900 desktop.)

William

Hi William,

I don't see why a couple of laptops shouldn't do as clients. I'm very far from an expert on Wideview, but I do know that the client computers don't need the same power as the server. Since they can drive external monitors, the fact that they aren't desktops shouldn't matter.

The server is doing most of the work. Mine is running Fs2002, FsMeteo, Radar Contact, and Flight Deck Companion, as well as running Wideview. Extra strain on mine is caused by the outside view being dragged down to full screen, with the panel on top. People with proper home cockpits have all their outside view monitors full screen, with extra monitors for instruments. The reason for full screen view under the panel, is to align the horizon with the client screens.

The clients are only showing an outside view, no need for instruments or sound. They run Fs2002 in pause or slew mode, taking instructions from the server. The monitors can be any size, so long as they are arranged with the centre of their screens in a horizontal line. Mine are 19-21-19, Dell-Compaq-Dell, and all of them pretty ancient.

I'm delighted with my three monitor setup for Wideview, and haven't either the space or the inclination to take it any further. I've learned enough to get me going, and have a good few hours behind me now, but the real experts are over in the Wideview Forum at: http://www.flightsim.no/cockpit/forum/

Within my limitations, I'd be pleased to help anyone interested in this kind of setup, for compared to flying with a single monitor, it is a whole different experience.

Sorry to rabbit on so much,

Cheers, Jim

Hi Jim -

Well, I am actually quite interested in giving this a try. I will have to put it off a bit, though, as I am headed off for a sailing trip for a couple of weeks, and won't be near a computer after tomorrow. Thereafter, I would welcome any assistance in getting going. I'll be in touch.

William

Hi William,

This is a late reply, as I got caught by the blaster virus.

I'll be glad to help any way I can.

I hope you had a good cruise, I'm a long-time sailor myself.

Regards, Jim

>>Space requires me to stay with a single monitor ( for now<g>)<<

Get rid of that CRT and add 3 LCD displays...much cheaper than remodeling, and you could probably make it work. I built a computer station that takes up two walls in a small room...works great *and* I had the Boss' permission! <g>

--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Mike Greenwood
-OLR.PL v1.80-

Hi William,

To chime in here, I have nothing to add to what Vic said. My reasons are identical to his for paying to be here (I did from the start), *and* help run the joint. But, because of the fact that there are no children here (or adults acting like children), "running the joint" is actually a very easy task.

Multiple monitors.....

I've been using 3 monitors for I guess about 4 or 5 years now. However, until FS9, I could not put a 3d view on a second monitor without a HUGE frame-rate hit which made the sim unflyable. My monitors were/are all on the same PC. Sure, many folks used WideView and multiple *PCs* to run the setup, but that was never a real option for me. So, back then (before FS9), I would put FSNav on one screen, and the radio stack and throttle/prop/mix on another, saving the main view for the 3d world.

Now finally with DX9 and FS9 (hmmm...both 9s<g>) they got over the hurdle to allow the secondary video cards to handle their own stuff, and we can finally have more than one 3d view! There's still a frame-rate hit, but it's most certainly flyable most of the time. I generally fly with the main view up front, and 45 degree views on the other two monitors. My frame-rates (from the default 20) will drop to anywhere from 6 to 15, but generally is around 12. Hell, for the additional views the hit is worth it.

Obviously, the better the video card(s), the better the performance. One option is the Matrox Parhelia which will drive 3 monitors. I have that card on one of my computers with only 2 monitors, but not my main flying rig. The drawback (to me) is that Matrox *stretches* the display amongst the monitors, so in essence you wind up with one elongated forward view. There may be other ways to set it up, but I could not find one. The real kicker with the Parhelia (for me) is that it also stretches the main Window (not using FS here) the same way. I use multiple monitors for everyday work as well, so I might have email on one monitor, Internet explorer going on another, and word running on the third. The Parhelia is mostly game oriented, and does not handle this task the way I like. I'm sure I will be corrected by Parhelia owners here on the above. I'll admit, that I didn't give it a fair shake, but I will report that my setup below has better framerates than I saw with the parhelia. That could be due to the fact that (my) Parhelia is of the 128meg variety, so that's 3 monitors sharing 128meg (~43 meg/display). My setup below is 64meg/display so perhaps that's where the extra performance is.

My FS rig has a GeForce4 Ti4600 (AGP) to drive 2 monitors, and a second Geforce3 64meg PCI card driving the third. This works great for me with respect to both situations above. Using FS, I have my main (forward) 3d view on the center monitor, then open 45 degree views on the other two monitors. Using Windows in "everyday" mode, each monitor is treated as a separate desktop which is the way I'm accustomed to working with multiple displays.

Costwise, it's not cheap...nor is it exorbitantly expensive. Obviously, two more monitors, and if you have the $$ get LCD screens so they don't take up too much room nor generate as much heat. Then the video cards. If you are getting good performance on the AGP card you're using, then you could simply add two PCI cards to drive the other monitors. That's what I did before I got the Ti4600. Decent PCI cards are back in vogue since MM setups are becoming more common, and adding a PCI card or two is generally the cheapest way to get the job done.

I hope this helps a bit. Give me a shout if you need any more info.

--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Mike Greenwood
-OLR.PL v1.80-

Hi Mike,

I expect yours may be the way of the future. I know some of the people over in the Wideview Forum are using your method.

I was told that if you had monitors of different size it was very difficult to get the horizon aligned across multiple monitors. As I have a 19"-21"-19" setup, and I already had a good second computer, I decided to go with three computers/three monitors, and I'm not disappointed.

I think the old saying is very apt here:

"There's more than one way to skin a cat!"

Cheers, Jim