Hi all but especially Sticky,

Some time back we had an interesting discussion here about how to program the CH USB hardware especially the Pro Throttle and yoke using CH's Control Manager software. I especially wanted to know how to be able to program a button in each of the 3 modes available. Despite a lot of cerebral output we never got to the bottom of it.

Well, I'm pleased to report that I seemed to have cracked it after a couple of very productive hours last night. It's still early days and it probably complicated enough to require a write-up to explain it all.

The real driving force behind wanting to understand how it works was Pete Dowson's excellent facility within FSUIPC to allow buttons and key strokes to be assigned to the plethora of FS commands he has made available. So Pete, a big thank you for giving us that!

In short I now have nine CH Control Manager devices available to me - one for each of the three CH devices - Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals and Yoke for each of the three modes the Pro Throttle can be switched to.

In between working, testing Radar Contact v3 and watching footie on the TV I now need to find time to write a document on how to get the most out of this great hardware. It's just a pity the CH Help Guide is so useless. Nowhere does it describe doing what I did last night.

Watch this space!

Cheers,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

• RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough!!,Sticky, 22:03z, 10-02-02
  • RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough...,Ben_Chiu, 23:21z, 10-02-02
    • RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough...,Sticky, 00:12z, 10-03-02
      • RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough...,Ben_Chiu, 02:34z, 10-03-02
        • RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough...,Sticky, 07:01z, 10-03-02
  • RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough!!,RayProudfoot, 15:39z, 10-05-02
    • RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough!!,Sticky, 14:50z, 10-08-02
      • RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough!!,Sticky, 15:08z, 10-08-02
      • RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough!!,RayProudfoot, 21:26z, 10-08-02
        • RE: CH Control Manager breakthrough!!,Sticky, 10:35z, 10-09-02

Hi Ray,

That's great, Ray! I'll look forward to seeing it. I'm in the process of putting together the Users' Guide for CM2 maybe I can get some of it into that. I've been thinking of adding something about FS as it seems to cause the most confusion with the CM. CM2 will allow the mode changes without the throttle needing to be there, too, so the info will probably be useful even without the throttle.

I did find a way to simplify things a bit awhile back by making some changes to the Devices.cfg file. It get rid of that initial mess where everything has the same assignments. I put a file up on the net:

http://home.att.net/~stickworks/cmfs.zip

that explains how it works. I tried to post over here at the time but it wouldn't let me in. Looks like I'm back in the good graces of this board software again, though it takes forever for password and reply boxes to show up. Probably because I don't have the ActiveX stuff, etc. enabled.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear you got it running to your liking! Thanks for posting!

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

Greetings Bob:

> I tried to post over here at the time but it
> wouldn't let me in. Looks like I'm back in the good graces of this board
> software again, though it takes forever for password and reply boxes to
> show up. Probably because I don't have the ActiveX stuff, etc. enabled.

I suspect you're right. There aren't any ActiveX components attached to the message board until you post a message. Once you login, we try and send you a cookie so you can remain/automatically logged on and to store your preferences. If you block it, it'll add some delay there. Then, once you're logged on and the system doesn't find ACARS 2.1 installed (the ActiveX component), the system will try and send it to you. However, if you have the download disabled or refuse it, it won't download--which means the system won't find it next time you login, and will try and send it to you again.

Just FYI, if you don't want to add flightadventures.com to your trusted sites list, the only way around the cookie and ActiveX stuff is to use VPC OLR 1.1 or 1.2.

Ben

-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Ben Chiu
-OLR.PL v1.80-

Hi Ben,

It's the ActiveX download, then. I turn on cookies and shut down WebWasher, you have to have cookies for a DCForum post. There's just a long delay between the time the initial login screen shows up and the time the boxes show up for User Name and Password. At that point I get the "An ActiveX control is not marked as safe..." message. After I log in and hit reply, the message I'm replying to shows up, then the long delay, then the reply box and another ActiveX message pops. It's probably sending me the ActiveX control twice and since this dialup seldom manages much over about 15K baud in actual transfer rate, it takes a long time to get a post up.

It's not that I don't trust FlightAdventures, or even have a "trusted forums" thing. I just won't enable ActiveX or Java at all. Call me old-fashioned, but I cringe at the thought of anyone running anything on my PC that I'm not aware of.

Ah, well. You guys have all been at this so long you hardly have any trouble with your controllers anymore anyway. 8).

Thanks!

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

Greetings Bob:

> It's
> probably sending me the ActiveX control twice and since this dialup
> seldom manages much over about 15K baud in actual transfer rate, it
> takes a long time to get a post up.

Yes, it's trying to send you the ActiveX control again because it didn't find it on your system from the first attempt. It'll continue to do that until it finds it.

> It's not that I don't trust FlightAdventures, or even have a "trusted
> forums" thing. I just won't enable ActiveX or Java at all.

In IE, there are different "Zone" groupings. Each grouping has its own set of browser rules/settings. Unless you've set your browser for sites otherwise, all sites fall under Internet Zone (bottom right hand corner of the browser will show which you're currently at).

Adding a site to the trusted sites zone just means the site listed in that zone will have a new (user selectable) set of rules. If you've been to windows.update or ever clicked the "always trust this site" checkbox when you've downloaded an application, you've added that site to your trusted sites zone.

I don't blame you for enabling ActiveX and Java for all sites in your Internet Zone. I don't have mine enabled for the Internet Zone either. However, if you add a site to your trusted sites zone, only those sites listed in the trusted sites zone will have access to Java and ActiveX. Regardless, you still have the ability to accept or deny ActiveX downloads, and no other site that's not on that list will have its security/permissions changed. In other words, all other sites will remain with ActiveX and Java turned off. None of that stuff will change.

> Call me old-fashioned, but I cringe at the thought of anyone running anything on
> my PC that I'm not aware of.

I call that smart. But in this case, if you trust us not to stick something harmful on your system (which you can always uninstall I might add), then there's no risk. Remember, we run the same software on our systems. I wouldn't ask anyone to run something that I don't run myself.

> Ah, well. You guys have all been at this so long you hardly have any
> trouble with your controllers anymore anyway. 8).

Try the OLR. It's much more convenient too. If you've ever used OzWin at CiS, you'll feel right at home.

Best!

Ben

-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Ben Chiu
-OLR.PL v1.80-

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the replies. I did fine a workaround, it's in your private email.

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

Hi Bob,

It's going to be a little while before I can complete this document so I thought I'd give you the jist of how I did it. I'm sure you are more than capable of filling in the holes! <g>

Firstly, the outline. I have three pieces of harware - the Pro Throttle, Pro pedals and Yoke identified as Devices 1, 2 and 3 respectively. In Control Manager (CM) they are identified as Joystick 1, 2 and 3 respectively. Under the Program Settings tab / Mode Control I have chosen Pro Throttle. This enables tabs Mode 1, 2 and 3 allowing for multiple virtual devices.

Next, by pressing button 1 on the Pro Throttle I switch to Mode 2 (Red light) and select the Pro Throttle, Mode 2 tab. Under DX Device it currently says None. I select Joystick 4. The DX Axis is Z Axis. No other values are changed on that screen.

In order to get Windows to recognise this new virtual device I activate the current map. Windows XP recognises a new piece of hardware and the wizard takes me through the steps of identifying and configuring it. I repeat this action for the Pedals and Yoke for the remaining Modes. I end up with this arrangement...

Pro Throttle in Mode1 is Joystick 1.
Pro Throttle in Mode2 is Joystick 4.
Pro Throttle in Mode3 is Joystick 7.
Pro Pedals in Mode 1 is Joystick 2.
Pro Pedals in Mode 2 is Joystick 5.
Pro Pedals in Mode 3 is Joystick 8.
Yoke in Mode 1 is Joystick 3.
Yoke in Mode 2 is Joystick 6.
Yoke in Mode 3 is Joystick 9.

I allocate each button or axis to the relevant joystick (a long process unfortunately) but this only needs doing once. It's important that each button or axis is allocated because if None is chosen FS will not be able to assign that button to a control. Having done all that (with plenty of saves during the process) I'm ready to load FS2002 and sort out the axis's.

Having loaded FS2002 I decide which mode is what. I've decided that Mode 1 will be for jet's flying with Radar Contact. Mode 2 will also be for jets but using the default ATC facility. Mode 3 will be for props using the default ATC.

Jet's don't have mixture or propeller controls and as I have a seperate throttle I allocate the three levers on the yoke as follows: -

Left - Spoiler
Middle - Not used.
Right - Elevator Trim.

For Mode 3 (props) I allocate as follows: -

Left - Elevator trim.
Middle - Prop
Right - Mixture.

All the default FS2002 button assignments are deleted. Instead of assigning things in FS2002 I will use FSUIPC. This has the benefit of keeping things seperate and FSUIPC identifies the correct joystick automatically. It should be remembered that the joystick assignments start at zero not 1 so my nine virtual devices start at zero and end at 8.

If any buttons can't be assigned to a control the problem probably lies in CM software. The buton is either incorrectly assigned to a wrong joystick or the DX Control value for the button is set to None.

Okay, I hope that gives you the gist of how I've done it. Oh, one last thing. I do assign the Yoke's 8-way hat switch via FS2002 as there's no equivalent command in FSUIPC. If you do this in Mode 1 it automatically becomes available in Modes 2 and 3.

I hope that covers everything. If you or anyone else has any questions I'd be happy to help. One other thing. It's necessaru to delete all the axis assignments for all nine devices for SLEW mode. otherwise when you enter Slew mode the aircraft probably won't stay still!

Thanks for the link to your document. I had downloaded it but then lost it. As to whether you think your way is better than mine I'll leave up to you. My brain needs a rest now. <g>

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

Hi Ray,

Sorry to be so long responding, I wanted to try FSUIPC first and see a bit better what you were up to. It's been a long evening<g>.

>> It's going to be a little while before I can complete this document so I thought I'd give you the jist of how I did it. I'm sure you are more than capable of filling in the holes! <g> <<

8). I figured when you said you had 9 CM devices that's pretty much what you'd done, walked through the devices and duplicated the DX Control but changed the DX Device. Great idea, really. I'd have gone for overlapping the things, but with your method it's much easier to keep track of which button or axis is going to show up where in FS. Much more intuitive, and easier to keep track of what you're assigning. Nice work!

A couple of notes...

>> Next, by pressing button 1 on the Pro Throttle I switch to Mode 2 (Red light) and select the Pro Throttle... <<

You don't really need to switch the Throttle Mode itself. Just clicking the appropriate tab is enough while you're working on the map.

>> Oh, one last thing. I do assign the Yoke's 8-way hat switch via FS2002 as there's no equivalent command in FSUIPC. If you do this in Mode 1 it automatically becomes available in Modes 2 and 3. <<

Yes. Actually that's true of all the controls. Once you activate the Modes you have to have a Mode 1 assignment or it won't do anything. That becomes the default for Modes 2 and 3, so if either or both of those are unassigned, they'll pick up the Mode 1 settings when the Map is running.

>> Thanks for the link to your document. I had downloaded it but then lost it. As to whether you think your way is better than mine I'll leave up to you. <<

Oh, what I wrote was aimed at avoiding that initial confusion more than anything. Yours is certainly a more elaborate undertaking, but I think probably the two both have their places.

I've been fooling with it here this evening and ran across across a few things that might be of interest. I've only done this under XP Pro using FS2002 Pro. I don't know if it works in FS2000 and there are some anomalies because of the OS, you're mileage may vary.

First, you might find it helpful to add this at the end of your Devices.cfg file:

>>

AXIS_EVENT_00=
AXIS_SCALE_00=0
AXIS_NULL_00=0
AXIS_EVENT_01=
AXIS_SCALE_01=0
AXIS_NULL_01=0
AXIS_EVENT_02=
AXIS_SCALE_02=0
AXIS_NULL_02=0
BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_00=
BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_01=
POV_MOVE_EVENT_00=

AXIS_EVENT_00=
AXIS_SCALE_00=0
AXIS_NULL_00=0
AXIS_EVENT_01=
AXIS_SCALE_01=0
AXIS_NULL_01=0
AXIS_EVENT_02=
AXIS_SCALE_02=0
AXIS_NULL_02=0
BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_00=
BUTTON_DOWN_EVENT_01=
POV_MOVE_EVENT_00=

ALIAS=CH Control Manager Device

ALIAS=CH Control Manager Device SLEW

ALIAS=CH Control Manager Device

ALIAS=CH Control Manager Device SLEW

<<

(excluding the >> and << quotes of course). It only shows the ALIAS entries for Control Manager Device 1 and Control Manager Device 2, you'd need to replicate those out to Control Manager Device 9 (or however many you need to use). I tried just creating an empty device, but there's apparently a 3-Axis/2-Button/POV default stick in there, probably for the case where no Devices.cfg file is present, and those assignments have to be overridden explicitly.

With the modified Devices.cfg file running, the Control Manager Devices will show up with no buttons or axes assigned at all, either in Normal or Slew mode. If you've already assigned something, "Reset Defaults" will clear the device entirely (be careful what you click<g>). You do need to go in and set the axes using FS2K, FSUIPC doesn't do axis assignments I guess, but it's still a lot easier than clearing nine CM Devices of the default settings.

I ran into an anomaly with FSUIPC, forgive me if it's something everyone knows, but under XP the device seen as Joystick 1 is set in the Game Controllers applet "Advanced" tab as the "Controller to use with Older Games" or some such. Anyway that setting affects which device FSUIPC actually applies the button settings to, and if you change it you'll find that the FSUIPC settings have swapped CM Devices on you. My guess is that it just swaps the settings for whatever was Joystick 1 before the change with the settings for whatever is Joystick 1 after the change, but I can't really tell as my XP/FS machine only has two USB ports on it.

FSUIPC keeps the button settings in the FSUIPC.INI file under the section. My guess is that if you were to zip up your map, a copy of your FSUIPC buttons section, the modified Devices.cfg file, and include a note about where you've got the "Older Games" thing set for XP users, then anyone could duplicate your setup with just a couple of cut-and-paste operations and an initial axis assignment in FS itself. Could save a lot of explaining. 8).

Anyway, again, great work on the file! Thank you for posting the details. And if you're watching, Pete, a great job on FSUIPC, too!

>> My brain needs a rest now. <g> <<

Yes, mine too. 8).

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

Hi Ray,

Oops! The segment of the Devices.cfg and a reference to the Buttons section in FSUIPC aren't showing up correctly. The square bracket in the section headers are causing them to disappear, I guess. There doesn't appear to be any way to delete here, so I've zipped the whole message up and put it on the 'net. The URL is:

http://home.att.net/~stickworks/fscm2.zip

It just contains a TXT file with the message in it, runs about 2K. That will be more useful. Sorry about that.

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com

Hi Bob,

Many thanks for your comments and the useful advice. I have downloaded your ZIP and stored it safely away. It's going to have to keep until the weekend but I wanted to acknowledge your contribution. I think between the two of us we've come up with a pretty nifty way of setting up these controls. That zup will certainly save a lot of editing - thanks!

I'll respond in detail at the weekend. Hope you enjoy the rest of the week and thanks once again.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

Hi Ray,

>> Many thanks for your comments and the useful advice. I have downloaded your ZIP and stored it safely away. It's going to have to keep until the weekend but I wanted to acknowledge your contribution. I think between the two of us we've come up with a pretty nifty way of setting up these controls. <<

I think so, too, Ray. FSUIPC is a huge improvement for making the assignments over that tedious FS dialog and your method of assigning the devices is considerably more intuitive. The ProThrottle/Yoke/Pedals combination is relatively rare, I think, but even with just Yoke/Pedals the same basic approach would work for using the "Shift" button, and mode control will become available with CM2 in any case. It should make definitely make things simpler (if assigning a hundred or so functions can ever be "simple"<g>) when that happens..

>> That zup will certainly save a lot of editing - thanks! <<

My pleasure, Ray! I only had to erase two devices and was already having less fun than I cared to. Having to clear nine must have been an all day job. I'm also guessing you can recite the "New Hardware Found" dialogs for a Control Manager Device from memory now<g>.

>> I'll respond in detail at the weekend. Hope you enjoy the rest of the week and thanks once again. <<

I'll look forward to it, Ray. Thanks again for the info, and do let me know how it all works out!

- Bob

The StickWorks
http://www.stickworks.com