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Original Message
"Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-14-02 at 17:26z
In the spirit of complete disclosure on the continuing saga of "Plum Krazee - the Ultralight".

I had it on display this weekend at Carlisle Air Port's Aviation Appreciation Day and Air Show (which was well attended for a one lung airport known as N94. About 2000 paying customers and untold numbers of comp customers and 'sneak ins').

After most of the 'real planes' left to go home, I decided to get in a little 'taxi practice' on a real runway. Fired it up, taxied to the hold short line, let a plane on final land and go on past. Taxied out on to the runway and did a final check of controls and shoved the throttle forward. Plum Krazee moved out down the runway and I'm feeling good - ALL OF A SUDDEN and before I know it, the plane feels light and the right wing lifts up and the left wing drops and I'm heading for the bushes ....

Unconsciously, I must have backed off on the throttle, the right wheel re-contacts the ground and I'm able to stop it with judicious use of the brakes before total disaster ensues.....

I am sure all the ramp rabbits and hangers on are getting large chuckles but I think I've given myself enough thrills for the day and slow taxi back to the trailer for a trip home. Strangely, I never considered that it might have been dangerous for me but I WAS concerned about breaking my new airplane!

I am now looking seriously for someone to give me a bit of instruction in a tail dragger..... I HAVE BECOME A BELIEVER...

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 08-14-02 at 18:56z
Greetings Jerry:

> ALL OF A SUDDEN and before I know it, the plane feels light and the
> right wing lifts up and the left wing drops and I'm heading for the
> bushes ....

Glad you're OK. Sounds like you need to step on the right rudder some more, but you never know about the aircraft itself. Has anyone flown it since you bought it? If not, when was it flown last? It may be out of rig or something. Once you're satisfied it's not the aircraft, what I did was practice a lot of taxiing when I started with a taildragger. From there, I progressed to medium speed taxiing, then to high speed taxiing (all down the runway of course). Yes, throttle management is critical. You can add full power at first, but you have to bring it back or you will will takeoff (I guess you know that now!). :)


> Unconsciously, I must have backed off on the throttle, the right wheel
> re-contacts the ground and I'm able to stop it with judicious use of the
> brakes before total disaster ensues.....

Again, glad that nothing happened to you or the aircraft.

Be careful out there, my friend.

Ben


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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-16-02 at 13:26z

> Glad you're OK. Sounds like you need to step on the right rudder some
> more, but you never know about the aircraft itself.

Since it is an European engine, I was (somewhat) prepared to give it more left rudder but everything happened so fast it was all over before I realized what was happening....:)

> Has anyone flown it since you bought it? If not, when was it flown last?

Flown by the builder about a half hour before I put it on the trailer to bring it home. Nothing changed since then so the plane is probably rigged right. Chances are that it is the rigging of the pilot that is in error here...

> did was practice a lot of taxiing when I started with a taildragger.
> From there, I progressed to medium speed taxiing, then to high speed
> taxiing (all down the runway of course). Yes, throttle management is
> critical. You can add full power at first, but you have to bring it back
> or you will will takeoff (I guess you know that now!). :)

Practicing taxi was what I had in mind when I took the runway :). I just was surprised (to say the least) at how fast it got up to speed that I was unprepared to handle at that time. I was wondering if it would be 'appropriate' to try to "work up to it" by becoming comfortable with slower speeds and progressing up to take off speed. It sounds like that is what you did, which is encouraging. Maybe if I can progress slowly to a high speed taxi, I might be able to conquer this beast....

> Again, glad that nothing happened to you or the aircraft.

ME TOO !!

> Be careful out there, my friend.

I plan to be....Thanks for the advice and the encouragement. A bit of humility has been introduced into my life and I may be the better for it. More as progress is made.....

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by bcline on 08-16-02 at 20:34z
Hi Jerry,

Was going to wait until my surgery was all over before getting back into it, but your story prompted an earlier note.

I learned to fly in tail draggers...Super Cub and T-6 first, then later on the Beaver and C-47...and I can tell you that it is so easy, especially in light planes like the Super Cub, for that tailwheel to leave the ground almost immediately and your work on rudders is then that much more sensitive. With the CG much further behind the main gear the darned things seem to want to switch ends a lot. But, I'm sure you know all this. You've got to develop sensitive feet, for sure.

Just wait til you get into the first ground loop situation after landing! That's a lot of fun, too. They used to call me "wing-tip for sure Cline".

Bill

"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-16-02 at 22:30z
Hi Bill,

Nice to see ya 'round here again. I didn't know you had pending surgery, I hope it's not serious. You certainly can't have anything interfere with cruises and Sanibel Island <g>. Good luck with it.

Wishing you well...


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by bcline on 08-18-02 at 16:11z
Hey Greenie...you, too, Jerry,

I have a busy week ahead of me. I just now got my 'puter working again. Lost the hard drive. Got a lot of reinstall to do.

On top of that, I have another heart catherization on this coming Tuesday and most likely will get a stent put in this time. Then, on Friday I have surgery for colon cancer and will be in the hosp for a week or so.

Greenie, you won't be seeing me much in the "other place" for awhile. And, unfortunately, I will miss going to Sanibel this year. Will probably make my dermatologist happy.

I do plan on getting back into flt simming once I am back in fighting trim, so I guess I will be needing info on getting fully registered, dues, etc. I have been so intensively involved in the Train Sim, I have kinda let flying drop out of sight. Now I need some field checks again.

Jerry, I'm sure you'll be nice and careful with your new toy. Don't you dare become one of those experimental statistics.

Bill

"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-18-02 at 23:52z
Hi Bill,

>>On top of that, I have another heart catherization on this coming
Tuesday and most likely will get a stint put in this time.<<

My mom had the exact same procedure (stint and all) 3 weeks ago. Not fun, but not too bad either (according to her).

>>Friday I have surgery for colon cancer and will be in the hosp for a
week or so.<<

Damn, I'm sorry to hear that. I trust that the docs think the surgery will clear it up (they can get all of it)?

>>I will be needing info on getting fully registered,
dues, etc.<<

Yeah, well...there's PLENTY of time for that. You take your time and get well will ya? It'll be great to see you hanging around here more often, but first thing first!

>>And, unfortunately, I will miss going to Sanibel this year<<

Oh sure...just PILE it on whydontchya <g>.

Talk to ya soon. I and other will sure be thinking and praying for you this week!


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by vgbaron on 08-19-02 at 16:12z
Bill -

Mixed emotions come to mind on your impending medical procedures. It's tough that you have to have them but on the positive side, at least you HAVE options. I've had a few friends this years who didn't.

As a lung cancer survivor of 14 years now I can tell you it can be overcome.

Best and hope to see you back on the 'boards' soon.

Vic Baron

Of all the things I've lost - I miss my mind the most


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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by bcline on 08-19-02 at 21:04z
Thanks very much, Vic. Your thoughts are really appreciated.

I'll be back in trim in no time, I hope, and will spend a lot more time here.

Bill

"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-20-02 at 18:27z

> As a lung cancer survivor of 14 years now I can tell you it can be
> overcome.

My hat's off to you! I had a scare with prostate a number of years ago and that is as close as I want to come to it...the scare. Bummed me out for a couple of weeks I'll tell you....

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by vgbaron on 08-20-02 at 19:33z
> > As a lung cancer survivor of 14 years now I can tell you it can be
> > overcome.
>
> My hat's off to you! I had a scare with prostate a number of years ago
> and that is as close as I want to come to it...the scare. Bummed me out
> for a couple of weeks I'll tell you....

LOL, it has a way of doing that. I lost part of a lung and instantly quit smoking. It puts you in touch with your mortality, I'll tell you that. However, I'm still here and making noise so each and every day I thank the powers that be.

Vic

Of all the things I've lost - I miss my mind the most


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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-21-02 at 14:26z

> LOL, it has a way of doing that. I lost part of a lung and instantly
> quit smoking

Good for you. I used to work with a guy who didn't quit smoking. That's why I USED TO work with him....<]:¬(

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-20-02 at 18:26z

> On top of that, I have another heart catherization on this coming
> Tuesday and most likely will get a stent put in this time. Then, on
> Friday I have surgery for colon cancer and will be in the hosp for a
> week or so.

Geeze, guy. Are they giving volume discounts at the local hospital these days? When did all this stuff turn up? Never mind answering - just my shock reaction to the news. Goes without saying that we'll all be 'pulling' for you this next week. Let us know how things went when you feel up to it and best of luck during the recovery process...

> Jerry, I'm sure you'll be nice and careful with your new toy. Don't you
> dare become one of those experimental statistics.

Never fear - no matter how I feel about my own indestructibility - I sure don't want to break that airplane....easy does it and one step at a time.... I've had my taste of humble pie....<]:¬)

Good luck old friend and keep smiling....


***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-17-02 at 12:57z
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Was going to wait until my surgery was all over before getting back into
> it, but your story prompted an earlier note.
>

Good seeing you here, Bill. What surgery?? You having some problems??

> I learned to fly in tail draggers...Super Cub and T-6 first, then later
> on the Beaver and C-47...and I can tell you that it is so easy,
> especially in light planes like the Super Cub, for that tailwheel to
> leave the ground almost immediately and your work on rudders is then
> that much more sensitive.

And the MiniMax grosses out at 252 pounds - wet with overweight pilot!! :)

> Just wait til you get into the first ground loop situation after
> landing! That's a lot of fun, too. They used to call me "wing-tip for
> sure Cline".
>

Not looking forward to that experience.... that's why I want to learn to control it before take off, first <]:¬)

I guess it CAN be done...just have to work up on it slowly and not push the envelope (mine) too severely...

Should I be wishing you good luck on your surgery of what?


***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-20-02 at 17:54z
>>And the MiniMax grosses out at 252 pounds - wet with overweight pilot!!
:)<<

Make that WITHOUT overweight pilot......

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by Madape on 08-14-02 at 22:08z
Glad to hear your ok, and didn't damage the aircraft!

Totally agree with the idea of some professional tail dragger instruction :)

Sam Harvey
sam@crew.flightadventures.com

"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-16-02 at 13:26z
> Glad to hear your ok, and didn't damage the aircraft!

Thanks!!

> Totally agree with the idea of some professional tail dragger
> instruction :)

Tough to find around here these days but I think I've located someone who may be able to spend some time with me. He's also a certified ROTAX mechanic and dealer so making the contact will probably be good in more than one way.

More to follow....<]:¬)

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by AlanParkinson on 08-14-02 at 23:29z
Hi Jerry,

> shoved the throttle
> forward. Plum Krazee moved out down the runway and I'm feeling good -
> ALL OF A SUDDEN and before I know it, the plane feels light and the
> right wing lifts up and the left wing drops and I'm heading for the
> bushes ....

Aargh, don't scare me like that! Small, easy, and CAREFUL steps first.

It reminds me of my first session taxiing my own microlight - but I did some quite costly damage. I too was learning the ground handling, but as a hang-glider/trike combination, I was able to taxi the trike without the wing attached, so there was no danger of becoming airborne. I strapped in, opened the throttle, and before I knew it, I was hurtling down the field at frightening speed. The contraption rolled over, sending fragments of propeller flying everywhere, and I was left hanging from the seat belt; shaken, and suddenly having a lot more respect for the power available.

A low power engine coupled with a very lightweight aircraft can accelerate dramatically, often more rapidly than bigger and more powerful aircraft, though tailing off to a much lower top speed. (In my case, without the weight of the wing, the acceleration was truly awesome)

Take care

Alan


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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-16-02 at 13:27z

> Aargh, don't scare me like that! Small, easy, and CAREFUL steps first.

That's what I had planned ...but you know what they say about the best laid plans <G>.... Accelerated much was prepared to handle. Next time I hope to be better prepared to handle the situation now that I have been taught a bit of humility....<]:¬)

> It reminds me of my first session taxiing my own microlight - but I did
> some quite costly damage. I too was learning the ground handling, but as
> a hang-glider/trike combination, I was able to taxi the trike without
> the wing attached, so there was no danger of becoming airborne. I
> strapped in, opened the throttle, and before I knew it, I was hurtling
> down the field at frightening speed. The contraption rolled over,
> sending fragments of propeller flying everywhere, and I was left hanging
> from the seat belt; shaken, and suddenly having a lot more respect for
> the power available.


Gawd! What an experience! Sure glad that mine was no where near as destructive.... I, too, had taxied it without the wings on and had no problems, even though I do believe I had it up to nearly the speed of my humbling experience. The difference being the first time (without wings attached) was on turf and the second time was on paved surface. I do belive I was, in a fraction of a second it seemed, about to fly and I was not prepared to handle the reduced wheel traction. My plan is now, to work slowly up to take off speed and become VERY capable of handling it at that speed before I even consider taking off - because - that is the speed I will be landing at and I'd better be prepared to handle it...

>Take care

Thanks! More later.... Hope to get it out to the airfield again next week.....slowly...slowly...slowly.... and get some dual time in a tail dragger as soon as I can arrange it.....

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by AlanParkinson on 08-16-02 at 22:27z
Hi Jerry,

> The difference being the first time (without wings
> attached) was on turf and the second time was on paved surface.

That makes a HUGE difference. Before starting microlight flying, I was a keen member of the local model aircraft group, so when a big model flying show or competition was held at the nearby RAF airfield at Woodvale, two of us got permission to take along our microlights to fly after the models had finished - we'd never flown them from anything other than grass previously. There were loads of cars and people on most of the runways and the only one easily accessible was exactly cross wind. That was no problem, we simply took off across the width of the runway, easily reaching flying speed before running off the edge.

Alan

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-17-02 at 12:57z

> That makes a HUGE difference.

I am seriously considering working up to this task slowly and, not only limiting the speed of the taxi, but doing it in the grass next to the runway until I get really, really comfortable with my ability to control it. Then - moving up on to the paved surface......


>. That was no problem, we simply took off across the width of the
> runway, easily reaching flying speed before running off the edge.
>

Yeah - these things can get airborne in an amazingly short time....


***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by AlanParkinson on 08-14-02 at 23:29z
Hi again Jerry,

> In the spirit of complete disclosure on the continuing saga of "Plum
> Krazee - the Ultralight".
> ...
> After most of the 'real planes' left to go home

I had to answer this political point - just because it's an Ultralight doesn't mean it's not a real plane! It's got an engine, wings, fuselage, cockpit with a pilot inside - what more does it need? I had to defend my machine's honour many times - when the CAA stepped in and we had to put standard G-**** registration marks on the wings and tail, people finally started to accept that.

Alan


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"RE: Tail Draggers ARE different!"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-16-02 at 13:27z
>I had to answer this political point - just because it's an Ultralight
> doesn't mean it's not a real plane! It's got an engine, wings, fuselage,
> cockpit with a pilot inside - what more does it need?

That's why I put "real plane" in quotes :) Was informed of this fact early on in my contact with UltraLight folks <]:¬). In fact, based on limited experience, flying the Cessna 150 was much easier than flying the MiniMax......

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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