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Original Message
"Multiple Monitors"
Posted by jonahbird on 08-06-02 at 05:04z
Hi Greenie

I have your excellent briefing (January) on this process earmarked, and have just been re-reading it. I'm about to install a projector and change my 19" CRT for an 18" TFT. I will run these with my existing 15" TFT. The objective being - scenery thru projection; panel on 18" TFT; and FSNav on 15" TFT.

In reading your post I wonder why you have set your CRT to 1280 x 728. Wouldn't 1280 x 1024 be better?

Best regards
Frank

PS - Mike: I tried earlier to post this under the original thread. It looks my end as if it was posted but it didn't appear at the top of the latest schedule. I suppose archived threads cannot be revived.

Table of contents
Messages in this discussion
"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-06-02 at 18:40z
Hi Frank,

>>I will run these with my existing 15"
TFT. The objective being - scenery thru projection; panel on 18" TFT;
and FSNav on 15" TFT.<<

Sounds like that's going to be an awesome setup!

>>In reading your post I wonder why you have set your CRT to 1280 x 728.
Wouldn't 1280 x 1024 be better?<<

It would be, but I've scaled back to 1152x864. The performance hit at the higher resolutions is not worth it (to me), for a relatively small gain.

>>I tried earlier to post this under the original thread. It
looks my end as if it was posted but it didn't appear at the top of the
latest schedule. I suppose archived threads cannot be revived.<<

Hmmm, you should be able to. I'll look into it,

--Greenie

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PeteDowson on 08-06-02 at 23:35z
Hi Mike,

> It would be, but I've scaled back to 1152x864. The performance hit at
> the higher resolutions is not worth it (to me), for a relatively small
> gain.

What video card/drivers are you using, then? All the recent nVidia cards seem to measure the same rates for pretty much all supported resolutions. Even back in FSFORUM days on CIS, when Ray was doing his survey, that showed pretty much that all the top cards gave similar frames rates except at 1600x1200, and even that's pretty much on a par now.

I think only the Voodoo cards were far faster at lower resolutions, which was why their owners were so ecstatic about anti-aliassing, which makes lower resolutions look better. I don't use AA on my cards as at 1280 x 1024 I see no special difference and switching it on most definitely slows it down noticeably.

Regards,

Pete

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-07-02 at 02:51z
Hi Pete,

>>What video card/drivers are you using, then? All the recent nVidia cards
seem to measure the same rates for pretty much all supported
resolutions. <<

I guess I should have been clearer. It wasn't necessarily FS I was talking about. Just the whole windows view in general. Even though my eyesight is 20/20 the smaller icons, smaller text, etc was not worth the additional gain I saw in FS. Sure, I can choose any resolution in FS full screen mode, but most of my flying is in a window, so I'm stuck with whatever the desktop res is set at.

--Greenie


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PeteDowson on 08-07-02 at 10:24z
Hi Mike,

> I guess I should have been clearer. It wasn't necessarily FS I was
> talking about. Just the whole windows view in general. Even though my
> eyesight is 20/20 the smaller icons, smaller text, etc was not worth the
> additional gain I saw in FS.

Ah, right. I had problems with smaller text and so on, so used to use the larger size -- you can of course choose large or small or any percent change you select in Windows.

I still preferred the higher resolution in Windows, with enlarged text, even though you didn't then get any more stuff on the screen, as it made the whole of Windows look better.

Now all but one of my displays are TFT and they are so sharp I find I can read 'em with no trouble at all, so I've gone back to "normal" sized text. Of course, these screens are 1280x1024 native pixel resolution, so running them at anything but that gives a scaled picture which is not so good.

The only CRT I'm left using for the time being is a 22", so the 1280x1024 resolution doesn't make the text too small at all! <G>

I do have to have a large Mouse icon set, however, as my tunnel vision (caused by my hereditary Retinitis Pigmentosa) doesn't track well and I keep losing the **** thing. I still do even with a big mouse icon, but it's easier to find when I move it about. I should use mouse trails I suppose, but I don't like them! <G>

Regards,

Pete

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-07-02 at 22:31z
Hi Greenie,

<<It wasn't necessarily FS I was talking about. Just the whole windows view in general. Even though my eyesight is 20/20 the smaller icons, smaller text, etc was not worth the additional gain I saw in FS. Sure, I can choose any resolution in FS full screen mode, but most of my flying is in a window, so I'm stuck with whatever the desktop res is set at.>>

My graphics card (Ti4600 128Mb RAM) and monitor (19" Iiyama Pro 454) allow me to run FS2002 at very high resolutions but my preferred ones are 1280*1024 and occasionally 1600*1200. I have pushed it to 1920*1440 and even 2048*1536 but the refresh rate dropped to 75Hz and flicker was annoying.

I could change Windows settings so that fonts and icons would be as large at these very high resolutions as they are at my preferred resolution of 1280*1024 but despite the high quality of the Iiyama it's best at 1280*1024. Geometry also suffers once you really push it but I still prefer the visual display (and flexibility) of a CRT over a TFT screen with its fixed resolution. Give me a few more years though and I suspect that opinion will change.

I should also confirm that frame rates didn't take any hit at all up to 1600*1200 and only started to drop off at 1920*1440. Even with AA running at 1280*1024 there was no reduction in frame rates showing how powerful the Ti4600 is. Of course once you get to 1280*1024 or higher there's very little point in enabling AA anyway.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-08-02 at 01:40z
Hi Ray,

Thanks for relaying all that info. I know you've been keeping track of this stuff for a looong time. I guess after reading this, I'll revisit the higher resolutions with the text size changes. I have a Cornerstone (read: Hitachi) 19" crt with a 15" TFT on either side. The TFTs are limited to 1024*768, but that's OK. My main display is where I want the higher res.

Thanks again.

--Greenie


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-10-02 at 12:54z
Hi Mike,

What's the maximum resolution at 85Hz for your Hitachi? That's the lowest refresh rate where I don't detect flicker. Your eyes may differ of course and 75Hz may be acceptable.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PeteDowson on 08-10-02 at 13:55z
Hi Ray,

> What's the maximum resolution at 85Hz for your Hitachi? That's the
> lowest refresh rate where I don't detect flicker. Your eyes may differ
> of course and 75Hz may be acceptable.

PMFJI, but that's one reason I'm surprised you don't like TFT screens -- no flicker at all of course. They all run at 60Hz but there's no trace and phosphor fade to be refreshed.

Regards,

Pete

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-10-02 at 15:20z
Hi Pete,

Well, with a quality CRT and graphics card I can get quite high resolutions (1600*1200) @ 85Hz but the reason I prefer a CRT over a TFT is the way the image is displayed. A TFT is so sharp it looks like a 'warts and all' image. CRT appears more natural. Of course price was also a consideration. That Dell I looked at at a recent computer fair was £500 for a 17" display. The 18" visible on my 19" CRT costs £320. Of course prices are dropping and quality is getting better so the situation will change and I suspect I have bought my last CRT.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PeteDowson on 08-10-02 at 17:04z
Hi Ray,

> the reason I prefer a CRT over a TFT
> is the way the image is displayed. A TFT is so sharp it looks like a
> 'warts and all' image. CRT appears more natural

I suppose that's a matter of personal taste -- but I think you may change your mind when you see how good that Manchester scenery looks on my 17" TFT screen, even compared to the same on my 22" CRT! <G>

BTW the Aerosoft MCP arrived yesterday. It's a 747 model MCP of course, and I've been used to running Project Magenta with a 737 MCP, so I'm busy boning up on the 747 in my manuals -- though I'll still be flying a 737 of course <G>

Best Regards,

Pete

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-10-02 at 17:44z
Hi Pete,

I'm salivating at the prospect of seeing this screen! :-) I shall try and keep an open mind ;-)

I think it's about time you gradulated to something a bit more beefy than a 737! I know you don't fly much (too busy giving us mortals great software!) but I'm sure you're skilled enough to fly a 747 (landing is optional of course - fuel will be even worse to compute! ;-) ).

Time for dins!

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PeteDowson on 08-10-02 at 18:12z
Hi Ray,

> I'm salivating at the prospect of seeing this screen! :-) I shall try
> and keep an open mind ;-)

It's the same screen you saw before, but with a GeForce 4 Ti 4400 card (*much* better than that horrible Voodoo 5500! <G>), and of course the lovely detailed Manchester.

> I think it's about time you gradulated to something a bit more beefy
> than a 737! I know you don't fly much (too busy giving us mortals great
> software!) but I'm sure you're skilled enough to fly a 747 (landing is
> optional of course - fuel will be even worse to compute! ;-) ).

But I like lots of takeoffs and landing -- most of the bit in-between is a bit boring. For such short hops a 747 seems really a bit over the top! Besides which, until the PFC CDU arrives, my EICAS has to share a screen with the CDU, and there's not enough room for a 4-engined EICAS display! Maybe I'll move on to a 747 after the CDU arrives <G>.

Best Regards,

Pete

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-11-02 at 09:24z
Hi Again Pete,

I'm still looking into the CDU side <g>

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-11-02 at 10:34z
Mornin' Pete,

<<It's the same screen you saw before, but with a GeForce 4 Ti 4400 card (*much* better than that horrible Voodoo 5500! <G>), and of course the lovely detailed Manchester.>>

The GeForce4 Ti does give very good image quality. I had expected it wouldn't be as good as the Matrox but that isn't the case. So, combined with the sharpness of a TFT it should impress. Yes, I agree that Manchester is excellent.

The beauty of a sim is that you can break all the rules and fly whatever you want. I fly a 767 down to London which in the real world is a non-starter. Haven't tried it with Concorde yet :-) I might need to go via Amsterdam just so I can get supersonic but even then I'd be pushing it :-)

Two pieces of software sharing a screen? Time for another TFT me thinks! :-)

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-11-02 at 09:24z
Hi Pete/Ray,

Glad to see you both battling it out <LOL>

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-11-02 at 10:36z
Greetings Jimbo!

Battling? Nah, just enthusiasm for a great hobby and all the nice hardware that goes with it.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-11-02 at 15:54z
Yo Raymondo,

Glad to hear you are still enjoying the sim <s>. Haven't got around to re-installing the Concorde as yet but, one day <G>

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-11-02 at 09:24z
Hi ya Pete,

>> BTW the Aerosoft MCP arrived yesterday.<<

Geeze, how you get your's before me. I ain't got mine yet!!

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PeteDowson on 08-11-02 at 10:44z
Hi James,

> Geeze, how you get your's before me. I ain't got mine yet!!

Er ... programmer's privilege, maybe? The driver depends on FSUIPC of course, and WideFS for PM.

You'll like it when you get it. I'm reading up the 747 MCP stuff now -- got used to 737 methods before, but there are subtle differences. <G>

Regards,

Pete

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-11-02 at 15:54z
Hi Pete,

Can't wait for it and like you I'll probably have to read up on the 747 but it will work with the 737/757/767 and 777 as I'm lead to believe <s>

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PeteDowson on 08-11-02 at 18:50z
Hi James,

> Can't wait for it and like you I'll probably have to read up on the 747
> but it will work with the 737/757/767 and 777 as I'm lead to believe <s>

For FS planes, using the FS autopilot, it is really just an MCP-looking A/P control panel. Obviously no default FS aircraft have LNAV/VNAV/FLCH facilities, for instance. The full glory of the panel comes into play with Project Magenta, naturally. PM isn't fussy about what aircraft you fly as long as the parameters it needs are set up in its aircraft files.

It's just that, within PM you need to tell PM's MCP it's a 747 so it obeys the switches as a 747MCP. The functions they perform apply to any aircraft then (though obviously not very realistic with a Cessna 182, or even an Airbus! <G>

Regards,

Pete

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-11-02 at 21:18z
Hi Pete,

Will take all that into account when I get it <G>

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-10-02 at 18:37z
Hi Ray,

>>What's the maximum resolution at 85Hz for your Hitachi? <<

I can get up to 1600x1024 at 85hz and 32 bit color.

>>Your eyes may differ
of course and 75Hz may be acceptable.<<

Yeah, 75 is fine for me. I really can't see any flicker until I get below that.


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-11-02 at 10:51z
Hi Mike,

<<I can get up to 1600x1024 at 85hz and 32 bit color.>>

Ah, a good quality monitor I see.

<<Yeah, 75 is fine for me. I really can't see any flicker until I get below that.>>

Lucky man! I can still detect flicker unfortunately.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Vulcan on 08-08-02 at 23:27z
Hi Ray,

>1280*1024<

My understanding was that most (all?) FS stuff is designed to run at a 1.3333:1 ratio so 1280 should be 1280*960 to keep things square and round.

Is my understanding wrong or is it just that you don't notice the none-square/round artifact?


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-10-02 at 12:57z
Yo Vulc,

<<My understanding was that most (all?) FS stuff is designed to run at a 1.3333:1 ratio so 1280 should be 1280*960 to keep things square and round.

Is my understanding wrong or is it just that you don't notice the none-square/round artifact? >>

I've not noticed the possible egg-shaped gauges (my age probably!) but just as an experiment I've changed to 1280*960 just to see if it does make a difference. First impressions are that the some of the text on the 767PIC panel is slightly sharper but I'll need to grab some screen shots and see what difference there is.

Thanks for pointing that out - I never had got my calculator out!

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-11-02 at 00:14z
Hi Ray

>> I've not noticed the possible egg-shaped gauges <<

You won't on a conventional CRT. It's not the resolution that affects the shape of the dials but the actual ratio of the screen's height to width. If that's 3:4 your dials will stay round regardless of the resolution you choose.

If, however, you have a TFT the height to width is not 3:4 (see my reply to Vulcan). You gain, leastways you do on my 18" TFT, an extra 20mm or so in height (relative to width) so when you first switch to full screen everything, including the panel, and all the dials etc. on it, are stretched upwards slightly to fill the available space, hence the slight ovality. I guess you could say it's the reverse effect of a widescreen TV that's not properly adjusted, where everything's stretched sideways to fit and all the actors look very short and fat!!

This can be cured by resizing the panel (by dragging the top edge down), gaining a larger view of the scenery at the same time which can only be a good thing.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-11-02 at 10:49z
Hi Paul,

Blimey, don't see you round here much but it's nice to see you back :-)

<<You won't on a conventional CRT. It's not the resolution that affects the shape of the dials but the actual ratio of the screen's height to width. If that's 3:4 your dials will stay round regardless of the resolution you choose.>>

What I've found happens is that if I pick a non 4:3 resolution (1360*768 for example) some of the gauges remain round (such as the ASI) but others like the EHSI are severely distorted. I'm speaking here about the 767PIC panel. This is probably down to the way they have been designed.

The difference between 1280*1024 and 1280*960 is pretty small anyway so it was never going to be that obvious but I'm convinced, having flown for a few hours now, that the small text is slightly more readable than it was before at 1280*1024.

It's an interesting point you make about TFT formats and one reason not to run in full-screen mode. BTW, don't you auto-hide the taskbar when running FS? I always switch that option on and it gives me a useful increase in screen area. With 'Hide Menu Bar' also enabled I only have the main Windows ttile bar visible. Hardly worth the hassle of switching to FS view.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-12-02 at 16:07z
Hi Ray

> Blimey, don't see you round here much but it's nice to see you back :-)

Oh, I'm around but, like you, tend only to stick my oar in when I feel I can contribute.

> What I've found happens is that if I pick a non 4:3 resolution (1360*768
> for example) some of the gauges remain round (such as the ASI) but
> others like the EHSI are severely distorted. I'm speaking here about the
> 767PIC panel. This is probably down to the way they have been designed.

Yes, I can understand some variability if the panel was designed for a specific 3:4 ratio but the generalism still holds. With my old PC and CRT, when flying one of the MS planes I used to use with FS2k (the King Air I think) I'd deliberately switch back to 1024x768 rather than my native 1152x864 because the numbers were soooo much sharper.

> The difference between 1280*1024 and 1280*960 is pretty small anyway so
> it was never going to be that obvious but I'm convinced, having flown
> for a few hours now, that the small text is slightly more readable than
> it was before at 1280*1024.

With a CRT with its inherent 3:4 ratio I'd always stick with a 3:4 resolution such as 1280x960. I rather think 1280x1024 is deliberately engineered for the TFT type screens with their different ratio, viz.: my TFT screen size is 290mm x 360 mm and I'm sure it's no coincidence that 1024/1280 = 290/360 = 0.8, (a ratio of 4:5).

> BTW, don't you auto-hide the taskbar when
> running FS? I always switch that option on and it gives me a useful
> increase in screen area.

Sometimes I do, sometimes not. Depends what else I'm doing. When I'm working I'll often start a long distance flight then, once established in the cruise, carry on with my work, for which I find the task bar near essential. When I need a break I'll then switch back to FS with the panel off and use the passing scenery as a sort of screen saver. T'other day I was on the way back from Singapore and had planned a slight diversion over the Himalayas, with eta at Everest close to sunset. Sure enough, when I arrived there (at coffee break time <g>) I just sat and stared in awe at the spectacle. FS Meteo was providing a wonderful set of clouds and, looking out of the left hand window, the detail picked out by the sun's low elevation gave a stunning view. One of the few times I hit alt+enter and just wallowed in the tremendous advances FS and hardware have made in the very recent past. Took me slightly longer than normal to finish my coffee break :-)

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-13-02 at 16:04z
Hi Paul,

<<With a CRT with its inherent 3:4 ratio I'd always stick with a 3:4 resolution such as 1280x960. I rather think 1280x1024 is deliberately engineered for the TFT type screens with their different ratio, viz.: my TFT screen size is 290mm x 360 mm and I'm sure it's no coincidence that 1024/1280 = 290/360 = 0.8, (a ratio of 4:5).>>

Well that resolution has been around for a few years now so if it does suit TFT screens it's a case of them choosing that resolution rather than it being provided for TFTs.

To be honest I've never even bothered to work out the various ratios. I just assumed 1024 was 3/4 of 1280. Obviously even a cursory glance will reveal it isn't!

I've not flown over the Himalayas yet but following your excellent narrative I should plan a flight that would take me over them at dawn/dusk. I'm not sure if any real-world jet routes cover that part of the world given the Chinese's attitude towards Tibet. If not then I'll deviate for "a brilliant view". I'm sure ATC will understand :-)

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-14-02 at 22:35z
Hi Ray

>> Well that resolution has been around for a few years now so if it does suit TFT screens it's a case of them choosing that resolution rather than it being provided for TFTs. <<

How long have TFTs been around? I know I've only recently bought into them but I remember, several years ago, wondering if that's why bank charges were so high when my local high street bank (and building society) started investing in them while their prices were still pretty steep.

> I just assumed 1024 was 3/4 of 1280. Obviously even a cursory glance will reveal it isn't! <<

LOL

>> I'm not sure if any real-world jet routes cover that part of the world given the Chinese's attitude towards Tibet. <<

That's the beauty of simming - no such boundaries to worry about when the weather's good <g> I've also had spectacular views coming back from Italy over the Alps close to sunset. The effect varies depending on the weather FSMeteo is displaying. No clouds is OK'ish but, when the cloud pattern is right, it's remarkable. Enjoy.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-16-02 at 20:15z
Hi Paul,

<<How long have TFTs been around? I know I've only recently bought into them but I remember, several years ago, wondering if that's why bank charges were so high when my local high street bank (and building society) started investing in them while their prices were still pretty steep.>>

Good question! Pete's had one for about 2 - 2.5 years now and John Lewis have been using them at their customer points for about the same period. So, maybe 3 years tops. Now you know why you only get 0.1% interest on your current a/c balance! <g>.

Still hoping to get a view of the Himalayas or Alps at sunset. Busy, busy, busy! :-(

Cheers,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PeteDowson on 08-16-02 at 23:31z
Hi Ray,

> <<How long have TFTs been around?
>
> Good question! Pete's had one for about 2 - 2.5 years now and John Lewis
> have been using them at their customer points for about the same period.
> So, maybe 3 years tops.

Well, as a separate monitor for a desktop TFTs have been around for probably around 6 years. My Silicon Graphics 17.5" widescreen (1600 x 1024) is now 4 years old and I'm pretty sure that it was being made for at least two years before that. It was just prohibitively expensive! <G>

However, I had my first Notebook PC (a Toshiba) with a TFT screen before that and I was one of the last people in my company to get one. TFT type screens (and the preceding colour technology that was cheaper but less colourful) must surely be well over 10 years old now, albeit much of that time only on notebooks and (before that) Laptops.

> Still hoping to get a view of the Himalayas or Alps at sunset.

Got one of the Himalayas from Darjeeling somewhere, from our visit a couple of years ago ... oh, you mean in the Sim World? <G>

Regards,

Pete

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-17-02 at 15:42z
Hi Pete,

<<My Silicon Graphics 17.5" widescreen (1600 x 1024) is now 4 years old...>>

How time flies! Still a crackin' screen but I dread to think what it cost!

<<TFT type screens (and the preceding colour technology that was cheaper but less colourful) must surely be well over 10 years old now>>

Surprisingly long time but I suppose for a large part of that they were out of most people's price range.

<<oh, you mean in the Sim World? <G> >>

Unfortunately yes :-(

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-15-02 at 10:50z
Hi Ray

Further to my last msg, PCPro dropped through the letter box this morning and, guess what .... there's a review of 19" CRTs, with the Iiyama VM Pro 454 coming out on top (no surprise there perhaps) However, what caught my eye was that its optimum resolution is quoted as 1280x1024.

I don't know whether this is the just the reviewer's opinion or whether it's a quoted optimum by the manufacturers. I didn't realise there was an optimum resolution for CRTs. I thought that was only for TFTs, where the non-optimum resolutions are clearly inferior. However, if it's the manufacturer's quoted optimum, and the visible screen size ratio is still 3:4, and not 4:5, then all my previous thoughts on this matter are rendered defunct. Not that this would be the first time <g>.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-15-02 at 19:18z
Hi Paul,

Just read this with a bit of humor mate and the reviewers is in my opinion a do ball <S>. I've been using an iiyama 19" for about 3 years <g> and it's not the monitor that dictates its resolution size it's the Card your using.

I used an ATI Radion 7000 in this pc last night as I couldn't get it to run in my main pc (mobo probs) and I had the res upto 1600 x ???? (can't remember the second set of numbers) and that wasn't even pushing it <BG>.

The only thing I will say is ya need a good pair of bino's to see the screen <LOL>.

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-15-02 at 20:55z
Hi James,

PMFJI.

<<I've been using an iiyama 19" for about 3 years <g> and it's not the monitor that dictates its resolution size it's the Card your using. >>

Not quite true. :-) It's a combination of both the card and the monitor. No good having a great card and a rubbish monitor or vice-versa.

For example a 17" budget monitor would not allow me to run at 1600*1200 @85Hz that the Ti4600 can deliver. OTOH, a Iiyama Pro 454 with a STB Velocity 128 would be equally disappointing.

Under normal rules graphics cards can usually output resolutions and refresh rates that monitors are struggling to support but the gap is narrowing. The Iiyama Pro 454 can support resolutions up to 1600*1200 @85Hz and even higher at lower refresh rates. I've tried 1880*1440 but the refresh rate is too low for me at 75Hz.

Your 3 year old Iiyama cannot compete with current models just like my 4 year old Sony 19" cannot compete with the 454. Time to get your plastic out! :-)


Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-15-02 at 22:16z
Yo Ray,

I stand humbly corrected <G>

My plastic is taking a hammering at present <LOL>.

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-16-02 at 20:25z
Yo Jimbo,

<<I stand humbly corrected <G> >>

I wouldn't mind being humble if I was as rich as you! ;-)

<<My plastic is taking a hammering at present <LOL>.>>

Good lad! Delivery address - 8 Woking Rd, Cheadle Hulme... ;-)

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-19-02 at 16:06z
Hey Raymondo,

>> if I was as rich as you! ;-) <<

Ha ha, if only....

>> Delivery address -<<

Gee, you get that Pete <LOL>.

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-16-02 at 23:02z
Hi Ray

>> It's a combination of both the card and the monitor. <<

That's the way I've always understood it to be. However, with TFTs, or at least, certainly with mine, it comes with a quoted 'optimum' resolution (1280x1024). It's certainly possible to run it at other resolutions and, unlike earlier TFTs, you do get a full screen image too, but there's a noticeable penalty with respect to quality of image. However, with CRTs, as long as the graphics card can drive it, and the monitor will support it, I've never seen any variation in quality at different resolutions (other than the obvious one of less pixels = more jaggies).

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-17-02 at 15:48z
Hi Paul,

<<However, with CRTs, as long as the graphics card can drive it, and the monitor will support it, I've never seen any variation in quality at different resolutions (other than the obvious one of less pixels = more jaggies).>>

The Iiyama is the first monitor I've owned that will support 1600*1200 @ 85Hz. Now that I've set up all my software for 1280*960 it is quite a process to change it to cope with the higher resolution. I believe that because of the quality of the Iiyama I could probably live with 1600*1200 but the problem is that many intanet sites' images and text would shrink quite a bit which is why I'm staying with 1280.

With the Sony 19" and my older Matrox G400 there was some ghosting of the image at higher resolutions proving perhaps that things were being pushed a little too hard.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-19-02 at 06:43z
Hi Ray

>> With the Sony 19" and my older Matrox G400 there was some ghosting of
the image at higher resolutions proving perhaps that things were being
pushed a little too hard. <<

Oh, I've not noticed that on my iiyama.

This has been a fascinating thread. Just like being back in CS's FSForum. Vague connections to FS but covering other much relevant stuff too.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-19-02 at 20:55z
Hi Paul,

<<Oh, I've not noticed that on my iiyama.>>

My observations were with the G400/Sony. The Iiyama is fed by the Ti4600. In any case the Sony couldn't support 1600*1200@85Hz so it wasn't really an issue. The Iiyama and Ti4600 are both high-quality units so i would expect a higher quality image and so far, I'm not disappointed.

<<This has been a fascinating thread. Just like being back in CS's FSForum. Vague connections to FS but covering other much relevant stuff too.>>

Indeed! Almost like the good old days. Pity some old faces are not around to chip in.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by jonahbird on 08-19-02 at 21:46z
Hi Ray (& Paul)

<<This has been a fascinating thread. Just like being back in CS's FSForum. Vague connections to FS but covering other much relevant stuff too.>>

Yes and I am feeling a bit like the guy who stood in The Strand pointing at nothing in the sky, only to walk away leaving a large crowd trying to find what he was pointing at. :-)

Best regards
Frank

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-20-02 at 21:25z
Hi FRank!

I was wondering when the culprit would show his face again! <g>

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by jonahbird on 08-21-02 at 04:51z
Hi Ray

Sorry! I am a little distracted at the moment - and my wife is a little distraught :-( Can hardly get into my study for wires.

My special unit for containing all the unsightly bits is away at the joiner's. He is adapting it to a freestanding unit to enable me to face the projection screen. To avoid a stiff neck I have found a new temporary use for a Black & Decker Workmate. Holds the PFC nicely. Takes the pedals with enough room for my size 12s, and welcomes the PCs alongside it. It'll be better soon :-)

Regards
Frank

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-20-02 at 23:41z
Hi Frank

>> Yes and I am feeling a bit like the guy who stood in The Strand pointing
at nothing in the sky, only to walk away leaving a large crowd trying to
find what he was pointing at. :-) <<

Ah, but isn't that how all the best threads get started? I seem to remember more than a few threads having to be re-started when the msg no approached several tens and the sysop started suggesting the thread was wandering off topic. Mind you, this one's stayed faithfully on topic from start to end.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by jonahbird on 08-21-02 at 04:56z
Hi Paul

>>the sysop started suggesting the thread was wandering off topic<<

Yes - Don't you miss those guys ;-)

Regards
Frank

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-21-02 at 05:26z
Hi Frank,

>>Yes - Don't you miss those guys ;-)<<

How can ya miss us when we're still here <g>. We haven't messed with this thread 'cause amazingly enough it's really been on topic for the most part. I gotta go count messages, 'cause this *has* to be a record <g>.


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by jonahbird on 08-21-02 at 05:34z
Hi Mike

Just kidding! Blimey - a possible record! I started it in all innocence!! :-)

BTW I've justed posted a note in the 'File' section. I see that it won't appear. How do we know that you have received it?

Frank

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-21-02 at 15:03z
Hi Frank,

>>BTW I've justed posted a note in the 'File' section. I see that it won't
appear. How do we know that you have received it?<<

You just have to trust that I consistently check the posted message area <g>. I did get it, and a reply is on the way.


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-21-02 at 16:19z
ALERT!!!! ALERT!!!! ALERT!!!!!

Call in the Thread Drift Police immediately!!! Oh, Mike you ARE the Police. Reprimand yourself immediately!!! :7

Cheers,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-21-02 at 22:17z
>>Call in the Thread Drift Police immediately!!! Oh, Mike you ARE the
Police. Reprimand yourself immediately!!! :7<<

LOL! I hate having to punish myself all the time! <g>


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-21-02 at 08:45z
Hi Greenie

>> We haven't messed with this thread 'cause amazingly enough it's really been on topic for the most part. <<

Surprises me too <g>

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by James on 08-21-02 at 22:15z
Hi Mike,

Was gonna comment but, what the heck......... :-)

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-20-02 at 23:41z
Hi Ray

>> Pity some old faces are not around to chip in. <<

That's the only thing missing - but all the important ones are still here <g>

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-16-02 at 20:23z
Greetings again Paul,

<<there's a review of 19" CRTs, with the Iiyama VM Pro 454 coming out on top (no surprise there perhaps) However, what caught my eye was that its optimum resolution is quoted as 1280x1024.>>

Spotted that as well! Good choice eh? :-) I think the reason they suggested 1280*1024 rather than 960 is that the 4:3 ratio probably isn't important unless you are running specialist software like what we are.

The reason they quoted 1280*1024 rather than 1600*1200 is that the geometry struggles a bit at that higher resolution. I can run FS2002 quite successfully at 1600*1200 and very nice it is too (with no reduction in frame rates) but the differences are small and if I load any other software the font is miniscule making it difficult to read. So, I tend to stick to 1280*1024 ... woops I mean 960! <g>

There is always a recommended resolution for CRTs but for different reasons to TFTs. For 17" it's 1024*768, 19" is 1280*1024 and 1600*1200 for 21". It's just the resolution that the monitor works best with. They can go higher but even with top quality CRTs it places extreme demands on the tube.

I think your logic still hold water ;-)

Cheers,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PeteDowson on 08-16-02 at 23:31z
Hi Ray,

> I can run FS2002
> quite successfully at 1600*1200 and very nice it is too (with no
> reduction in frame rates) but the differences are small and if I load
> any other software the font is miniscule making it difficult to read.

But you can easily get around that by making the fonts in Windows bigger. It's a simple option in the video properties. I tend to have to do this with my eyes, and I far prefer higher resolutions AND bigger fonts than lower resolutions and fonts looking the same size but less sharp.

Regards,

Pete

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-17-02 at 15:51z
Hi Pete,

<<But you can easily get around that by making the fonts in Windows bigger.>>

Yes, I'm well aware of those settings but I would also need to change things in Outlook which is quite laborious especially when I can't just load a profile to easily toggle between 1280 and 1600.

And there is the Internet where some images shrink as you increase resolution. If I want to fly at 1600*1200 it's an easy think to switch res's but for general work 1280 is my preferred resolution.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-17-02 at 18:06z
Hi Ray,

While watching this thread, a great idea hit me. With XP you can set up user accounts, and quickly switch between them (called: fast user switching). I've done it all along with my wife, so she can have her desktop the way *she* likes it, check her email, have her own "favorites" etc. I figured, why not set up an "FS" user? I did! I set the resolution to what seems best for FS, but not so good for other things. The only icons on the desktop are FS2002 and the recycle bin <g>. Anyway, it works great. When I'm doing mundane stuff like work <g>, I use my regular account. When I want to fly, I switch to the FS account, and voila, resolution changes, and I'm good to go. Next, I'm going to start placing shortcuts to specific flights on the desktop. I wish I had thought of this earlier!


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-18-02 at 10:31z
Hi Mike,

That's an interesting idea and one I will have a think about. I think if you do specific things with each login then it will work admirably. OTOH, I tend to check e-mail whilst I'm flying and sometimes do other things as well so it may not be suitable for me.

Let us know how you get on with it please.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-18-02 at 17:44z
Hi Ray,

Unfortunately, it's not working out as I had hoped. It seems that the resolution is global across users. IOW, I can't get a separate higher resolution to stick for the FS account. Actually, I can, but when I go back to my regular account, the res is the same (very high). So much for *that* great idea <g>. I'll do some research on it and report back.

--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-18-02 at 22:48z
Hi Mike,

<It seems that the resolution is global across users. IOW, I can't get a separate higher resolution to stick for the FS account.>>

How bizarre! Maybe there is an option somewhere to remember the preferred res for each user. It seems so obvious I'm amazed MS didn't include it!

Have you tried the nVidia Desktop Manager? That allows you to create profiles that should be easily loadable with preferred Windows settings.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-20-02 at 03:24z
Hi Ray,

>>How bizarre! Maybe there is an option somewhere to remember the
preferred res for each user. It seems so obvious I'm amazed MS didn't
include it!<<

I'm with ya on that. I really haven't had the time to look into it further since my initial attempt. I fully intend to over the next few days though. It just seems such a perfect solution, I need to make it work <g>. However, even if the resolution thing isn't possible, just having a user account for flight sim definitely has it's upsides. I fully intend to explore the possibilities.

>>Have you tried the nVidia Desktop Manager? That allows you to create
profiles that should be easily loadable with preferred Windows settings.<<

No I haven't. While I understand the concept, I'd much prefer to go the user route if possible. I tend to shy away from software that tries to do things "it's own way" rather than the windows way. I just have this gut feeling that the 2 packages wind up at war with each other behind the scenes <g>. I'm probably way off base, but I did just have a bad experience with "Nview" and prefer not to repeat it. BTW, Nview is a tough one to get rid of <g>.

I'll keep everyone posted (probably as a new thread). Anyone not using the Offline Reader, is probably buried in this one <g>.


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by jonahbird on 08-20-02 at 05:15z
Hi Greenie

Your comment to Ray about nView caught my eye. What was your bad experience, please?

Best regards
Frank
(Buried in this interminable thread!)

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-21-02 at 01:43z
Hi Frank,

>>Your comment to Ray about nView caught my eye. What was your bad
experience, please?<<

It actually isn't as bad as I made it sound. Mainly if fouled things up in such a way that a certain beta I'm involved with no longer functioned. Then I tried to remove it all together, and really found no way other than reverting back to an older driver...that really pissed me off <g>. I suppose there are some neat features using it, but none are necessities in my opinion.

--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by jonahbird on 08-21-02 at 05:08z
Hi Mike

Phew! I thought it was something real bad.

You may have missed my earlier expression of naive excitement. As I move towards some sort of conclusion to my present upheaval I discovered (or thought I did) that the Ti4600 enabled (using nView) the extension of the desktop. This way I can drag the panel to the second monitor without any apparent loss of frame speed. And, it avoids the cost of a second card :-)

Regards
Frank

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-21-02 at 05:26z
Hi Frank,

>>You may have missed my earlier expression of naive excitement. As I move
towards some sort of conclusion to my present upheaval I discovered (or
thought I did) that the Ti4600 enabled (using nView) the extension of
the desktop.<<

Hehe, actually, I didn't miss it (I think it *really* added to the longevity of this thread <g>), It's just that I didn't put "nView" together with what you were saying. I thought it was something specific to your Ti4600, and I never saw it until I upgraded to the latest signed drivers on my lowly GeForce 2 <g>. If it's working for you then that's fabulous! I personally don't need it to extend my desktop, since I already have 3 vid cards in my machine. If I didn't though, I'd really see the value in it.


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-20-02 at 23:41z
Hi Greenie

>> I did just have a bad experience with "Nview" and prefer not to repeat it <<

Can I echo Frank's request? I've used nView a couple of times for experimenting with various settings, turning it on and off as and when required and, as far as I know, everything's still going OK. No bad experiences noted here.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-21-02 at 01:43z
Hi Paul,

>>I've used nView a couple of times for
experimenting with various settings, turning it on and off as and when
required and, as far as I know, everything's still going OK. No bad
experiences noted here.<<

See my reply to Frank above. I too can turn it on and off, but have you found a way to remove it completely? It's not in add/remove programs, and there's no uninstaller that I can find.


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-21-02 at 08:46z
Hi Greenie

>> I too can turn it on and off, but have you found a way to remove it completely? It's not in add/remove programs, and there's no uninstaller that I can find. <<

Nope, I can't see a way to uninstall it either.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 08-25-02 at 03:06z
Greetings Mike:

> I'll keep everyone posted (probably as a new thread). Anyone not using
> the Offline Reader, is probably buried in this one <g>.

I was thinking the same thing. We should rename this thread "Multiple Messages". :)


Ben


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-21-02 at 01:43z
>>How bizarre! Maybe there is an option somewhere to remember the
preferred res for each user. It seems so obvious I'm amazed MS didn't
include it!<<

Bad news I'm afraid...I checked the Knowledge Base, and the problem is "by design" :( It states that resolution is a global setting and is not specific to users. What a bummer.


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-19-02 at 06:43z
Hi Greenie

>> It seems that the resolution is global across users <<

I was just about to reply to your previous msg, to say that I'd read this was the case (only just this last week) , when you answered it for me. Pity. It sounded such a good idea too :-(

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by jerryrosie on 08-20-02 at 17:54z
>
> While watching this thread, a great idea hit me. With XP you can set up
> user accounts, and quickly switch between them (called: fast user
> switching).

Geeze! Such a simple solution !! No wonder no one has thought of it before. Great idea...!!!

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-21-02 at 01:44z
Hi Jer,

>>Such a simple solution !! No wonder no one has thought of it
before. Great idea...!!!<<

Too bad it doesn't work as intended :(


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by vgbaron on 08-21-02 at 15:54z
Mike -

My guess is that the settings are probably kept in the registry. If you can find the correct area, you could create a couple .reg file that has the changes you want and install them via
batch file before/after running FS.

CAVEAT: Registry mucking is not for the faint of heart but with proper backups not really a big deal.

Vic

Of all the things I've lost - I miss my mind the most


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by vgbaron on 08-21-02 at 16:51z
Mike -

Just did some checking - now this is W98SE 'cause my XP machine is at home but it worked for me. Using REGEDIT go to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Config\0001\Display\Settings

you'll find the info you need there.

Set up your display the way you want and save it. Run REGEDIT and export the above key as a .reg file. Then reset your settings for 'normal' use and save. repeat the regedit export.

You should now have two .reg files - call them flight.reg and normal.reg.

All you need to do is double click the reg file and the settings will be imported to the registry. Reboot and run FS. When done repeat the process with normal.reg & reboot.

It's about as close as you can come to automating the process but it's probably better than changing them manually every time.

HTH,

Vic

Of all the things I've lost - I miss my mind the most


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-21-02 at 22:18z
>>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Config\0001\Display\Settings<<

I dunt have that key on my XP machines :(


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by vgbaron on 08-21-02 at 22:52z
ok wait until I get home. I'll check my XP system and see if I can locate the settings in the registry.

TTYL,

Vic

> >>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Config\0001\Display\Settings<<
>
> I dunt have that key on my XP machines :(
>
>


Of all the things I've lost - I miss my mind the most


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by vgbaron on 08-22-02 at 00:47z
> >>HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Config\0001\Display\Settings<<
>
> I dunt have that key on my XP machines :(


OK, try this one:

.stuff
.stuff
"DefaultSettings.XResolution"=dword:00000400
"DefaultSettings.YResolution"=dword:00000300
.stuff

Work your way down the tree - the key after \VIDEO\ may be machine specific but when you get to the \0000 you will see a list of settings. I've just isolated the ones relating to resolution. The values are in HEX so 00000400 x 00000300 = 1024x768.

If you just change your settings the normal way and then export the key you won't have to worry about it.

Any questions?

BTW, this assumes you log on as admin and have security to edit the registry.

HTH,

Vic


Of All the Things I've lost, I miss my mind the most!


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 08-22-02 at 01:24z
>>.stuff
.stuff
"DefaultSettings.XResolution"=dword:00000400
"DefaultSettings.YResolution"=dword:00000300
.stuff<<

Ok, I'm lost <g>.


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by vgbaron on 08-22-02 at 23:14z
> >>.stuff
> .stuff
> "DefaultSettings.XResolution"=dword:00000400
> "DefaultSettings.YResolution"=dword:00000300
> .stuff<<
>
> Ok, I'm lost <g>.


Don't feel bad - me too. There's a complete KEY that I pasted that somehow didn't show up. I'll have to wait until I get home again tonight to find it again.

Sorry about that.....


Vic

Of all the things I've lost - I miss my mind the most


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by vgbaron on 08-23-02 at 00:25z
>
> Ok, I'm lost <g>.
>

OK - here's the correct key:



.
.
.
"DefaultSettings.XResolution"=dword:00000400 (1024)
"DefaultSettings.YResolution"=dword:00000300 (768)
.
.

HTH,

Vic

Of All the Things I've lost, I miss my mind the most!


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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-24-02 at 07:44z
Hi Greenie

>> Too bad it doesn't work as intended <<

I knew I'd seen it somewhere - you may not need registry hacks to get different resolutions to work with different users. Have a look at a program called 'Multires' at www.entechtaiwan.com. According to the blurb in front of me: "This can be run in a non-resident command mode in a batch file, so that in other words you can place a .cmd file within each user's profile to set their preferred resolution.

Hope this helps.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-17-02 at 00:08z
Hi Ray

>> There is always a recommended resolution for CRTs but for different reasons to TFTs. For 17" it's 1024*768, 19" is 1280*1024 and 1600*1200 for 21". It's just the resolution that the monitor works best with. <<

When you say, "the resolution that the monitor works best with" are you saying that you get better picture quality (as with a TFT's optimum) or just that, electrically, it's the most efficient setting?

Over the years I've tended to use 640x480 with my first 14", 800x600 with my 15", 1024x768 with the 17" and 1152x886 with my 19". I've not used these sizes for quality but solely because, each time I got a larger monitor, this was the resolution that seemed to give me the same size text as the previous one, a size I'd got used to and was comfortable with. Now that I've got this 18" TFT (whose diagonal is near as dammit the same as a 19" CRT) I've got used to the slightly smaller font given by 1280x1024, though the clarity of the screen helps and, with use, I'm now perfectly happy with it, especially the, effectively, greater amount of 'real estate'. I did try changing the font size in Settings>Advanced but don't think the custom size displays as well as the default 96dpi.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by RayProudfoot on 08-17-02 at 15:57z
Hi Paul,

<<When you say, "the resolution that the monitor works best with" are you saying that you get better picture quality (as with a TFT's optimum) or just that, electrically, it's the most efficient setting?>>

It's just that I feel the monitor is really being pushed at 1600 and whilst the quality of a FS panel is brilliant the geometry of the screen in general apps does feel a little strained. No, it's not down to electrical consumption or anything like that.

The quality of the monitor does have a big say on what res you can run at. The Iiyama is much higher quality than my Sony 19" which 4 years ago was pretty expensive and had a great image quality. But, as with all things, advances in design allow for better quality for the same money (or in the case of the Iiyama, less money).

And yes, I also run at 96dpi.

Regards,

Ray Proudfoot,
Cheshire, England

"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-10-02 at 23:32z
Hi Vulcan

PMFJI ...

>> My understanding was that most (all?) FS stuff is designed to run at a
1.3333:1 ratio so 1280 should be 1280*960 to keep things square and
round. <<

You're right. I have an 18" TFT that I run at its native 1280x1024 and if I run FS full screen all the round dials become visibly oval.

I don't know if this applies to all TFT screens but the ratio of height to width on mine is different from my 19" CRT. The CRT dimension (inside the bezel) is 365mm wide x 273mm high - exact 3:4 ratio, while the TFT is 360mm x 290mm. For the TFT to be 3:4 the height would need to be 270mm. In other words the TFT screen gives me an extra 20mm horizontal strip of 'real estate'.

However, I prefer to run FS in windowed mode and, because the task bar uses 10mm at the bottom of the screen, the out of roundness isn't that obvious.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by PaulCroft on 08-11-02 at 00:14z
Hi Vulcan

Something I should have mentioned about the screen ratio - if the panel of the plane you're using allows you to resize it, you can always drag the top edge of the panel downwards to alter the ratio of the length to height of the panel. This will alter the ratio of the length to height of all the dials at the same time, to round once more (or any shape you want <g>) and give you more of the scenery on the screen too. A win-win situation.

Paul Croft
10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL)

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"RE: Multiple Monitors"
Posted by jonahbird on 08-08-02 at 04:45z
Hi Mike

>>Sounds like that's going to be an awesome setup!<<

It depends how you look at it < :-) that was unintended>. In the context of this discussion, to get the larger image I am having to give up some resolution.

XGA projectors are dear enough , but anything higher than that is really prohibitive. Also the size of higher res units is too chunky for my setup. The NEC unit I have sits very unobtrusively on the window pelmet.

Regards
Frank