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Original Message
"Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 07-07-02 at 06:07z
Greetings!

I took these when I hopped on a flight with Carlos from Paso Robles to Carlsbad (McClellan-Palomar) in a Learjet 35A yesterday. Just FYI, ATC routed us over the ocean (Catalina) and the return leg took about 45 minutes--you do the math. :)

Ben

http://www.flightadventures.com/logs/van_nuys.jpg
Van Nuys from FL350


http://www.flightadventures.com/logs/catalina.jpg
Avalon Airport on Catalina Island from FL230


http://www.flightadventures.com/logs/carlsbad.jpg
On final to Carlsbad

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Messages in this discussion
"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Madape on 07-07-02 at 18:09z
Woah! Some nice pics there... didnt know how crampt it was in those Lear Jet cockpits, looks v.snug!

I was just wonderging, Pilots who fly for the big airlines, have to certify for a specific aircraft (or aircraft family in Airbus's case) i.e. 737, 757, A318/19/20/21 etc etc. Do pilots have to specialise in a certain type of BizJet, or can they just fly any type?

Sam Harvey
sam@crew.flightadventures.com

"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 07-07-02 at 22:39z
Greetings Sam:

> Woah! Some nice pics there... didnt know how crampt it was in those
> Lear Jet cockpits, looks v.snug!

Most biz jets are pretty crampt even in the cabin. While in Carlsbad, there were a bunch of GIV's, and GV's at the jet center (that's the way to travel!), and those cockpits are about the size that most folk imagine cockpits to be. However, you should note that the wingspan of a LJ is about the span of the horizontal stab of a GIV!

> I was just wonderging, Pilots who fly for the big airlines, have to
> certify for a specific aircraft (or aircraft family in Airbus's case)
> i.e. 737, 757, A318/19/20/21 etc etc. Do pilots have to specialise in a
> certain type of BizJet, or can they just fly any type?

Type ratings are required for:
- Large aircraft (>12,500lbs)
- Turbojet (not turboprops)
- Other aircraft specified by the FAA

"Type" in this case means the aircraft type. So yes, DC-7, F-27, etc., etc., each requires a separate type rating--which mean training and a flight test.

Hope this helps!

Ben


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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Madape on 07-08-02 at 11:26z
Hi Ben

Thanks for clearing up the type issue... now I'm really gonna show my incompetence on Aircraft... whats a GIV, or GV :Q:

Sam Harvey
sam@crew.flightadventures.com

"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 07-08-02 at 18:37z
Greetings Sam:

> whats a GIV, or GV :Q:

My fault-- G-IV and G-V are Gulfstream 4 and 5 respectively.

Ben


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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Madape on 07-09-02 at 00:50z
Ahh now they sound familar :)

Sam Harvey
sam@crew.flightadventures.com

"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 07-10-02 at 02:27z
Those are great pics Ben. Lucky you!

I was lucky to be able to log a couple of hours in a Falcon 50 sim at Simuflite in Dallas a few years back. The cockpit in that plane is cramped as well, but once seated, it's not all that bad. I actually did ok, as the instructor said that that the plane might actually be flyable again after my landings <g>. That's the closest I've come to a real bizjet.


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 07-10-02 at 18:53z
Greetings Mike:

> Those are great pics Ben. Lucky you!

Actually, not so lucky. We suffered a non-MEL-able equipment failure and stayed overnight (it was tough finding a hotel room on the 4th of July weekend) courtesy of North American Jet. I'll spare you the details.


> I was lucky to be able to log a couple of hours in a Falcon 50 sim at
> Simuflite in Dallas a few years back. The cockpit in that plane is
> cramped as well, but once seated, it's not all that bad.

I guess it's all relative. I'm an average sized guy (69") and curve of the LJ35 cockpit placed my head within 3" of the top curve of my head.


> I actually did
> ok, as the instructor said that that the plane might actually be flyable
> again after my landings <g>.

Being flyable after landing is a good thing. :)


> That's the closest I've come to a real bizjet.

Who knows? San Jose isn't that far from Paso. :)

Ben


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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 07-11-02 at 03:22z
Hi Ben,

>>I guess it's all relative. I'm an average sized guy (69") and curve of
the LJ35 cockpit placed my head within 3" of the top curve of my head.<<

I think that the Falcon 50 is a bigger plane than the LJ35, so maybe that's why I felt more comfortable (we're about the same height).

>>Being flyable after landing is a good thing. :)<<

Hehe, well, not being a pilot, I woulda been happy if he said that we lived through the landing <g>. It was a bonus that he said the plane a probably still flyable :-)

>>Who knows? San Jose isn't that far from Paso. :)<<

Well, fly that sucker up here...I'll meet ya at the Jet Center!! <g>


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 07-11-02 at 07:56z
Hi Mike:

> Well, fly that sucker up here...I'll meet ya at the Jet Center!! <g>

All it takes is money. :)

Seriously, too bad we all don't live in higher concentrations in some areas. If we could get a few of the guys together to kick in a couple of hundred bucks each, we could take short trip and basically do a mini "checkout" flight for everyone (preflight, explain the flight profile etc., then take the flight). I'm sure everyone would get a better appreciation of how different flying a jet really is compared to what's done in FS. (Prop plane procedures are much closer to the real thing in FS, IMHO.) Perhaps if we ever have a FlightAdventures VPC Convention or something like that we can arrange something like this.

Ben


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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by jerryrosie on 07-11-02 at 14:17z
>>) Perhaps if we ever have a FlightAdventures VPC Convention or
something like that we can arrange something like this.<<

ABSOLUTELY S T U P E N D O U S idea!!

***Reality - The refuge of those who can't handle simulation***
Cheers, Jerry (N94)

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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 07-11-02 at 16:19z
>>ABSOLUTELY S T U P E N D O U S idea!!<<

Sure is, but we need ALOT more crew memberships to get something like that even to the planning stage :(


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Mike_Greenwood on 07-11-02 at 16:19z
>>All it takes is money. :)<<

Yeah, doesn't everything. I'm curious, what's the hourly cost to fly that thing?


--Greenie
**6 miles SSE KSJC**

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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 07-11-02 at 18:48z
Hi Mike:

> Yeah, doesn't everything. I'm curious, what's the hourly cost to fly
> that thing?

I'm not sure, but I think it's around $1600/hr. Get a few guys together and we're in for $200 a pop for a round trip to SJC and MRY easy.

Ben


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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by avbug on 07-08-02 at 20:45z
Madape,

The learjet cockpit isn't all that cramped. It just looks like it. It's a good fit. The Learjet type rating covers the LR20 series, and the LR35/36. These all have similiar sizing in the cockpit, though the 20 series are a little smaller and have a little less room up there. Later lears such as the LR45 have much more room up there, and are more comfortable, as well as nearly a stand-up cabin.

FL230 is low level for the learjet. It's not so bad in the LR35 in that picture, but a real killer for the 20 series. At that altitude in a LR24 or LR25, you can watch the fuel gage wind down...you can see it move.

Are those the rosen sunvisors in that picture? It looks like a better system than the standard visor system, with the ability to block the sun near the windshield center post...something you can't do on the standard LR arrangement.

"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Madape on 07-09-02 at 00:53z
Hi AvBug!

>The learjet cockpit isn't all that cramped. It just looks
>like it. It's a good fit. The Learjet type rating covers
>the LR20 series, and the LR35/36. These all have similiar
>sizing in the cockpit, though the 20 series are a little
>smaller and have a little less room up there. Later lears
>such as the LR45 have much more room up there, and are
>more comfortable, as well as nearly a stand-up cabin.

Thanks the info! Maybe just maybe, one day I might have a go in one (Dream on!) :P

>FL230 is low level for the learjet. It's not so bad in
>the LR35 in that picture, but a real killer for the 20
>series. At that altitude in a LR24 or LR25, you can watch
>the fuel gage wind down...you can see it move.

Ack! Geesh dont say that, those kinda things freak me out! :)

Cheers!

Sam Harvey
sam@crew.flightadventures.com

"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 07-09-02 at 02:08z
> FL230 is low level for the learjet.

Rgr. We were descending because our IAF was about 50 something miles from Santa Catalina VOR.


> Are those the rosen sunvisors in that picture?

I didn't read who made them, but I think you're right. Good eye!

Ben


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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by andor on 07-08-02 at 02:01z
G,day Ben.. well you may leer.. lucky so & so :). Now I know why I have trouble with Catalina, it,s all those clouds!!. If they had routed you just a bit further, you could have dropped in to see me.. 45min X 350kts. Hmmm :)
Great shots,
Regards Andy
"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 07-08-02 at 18:15z
Greetings Andy:

> Now I know why I have trouble with Catalina, it,s all those clouds!!

That's fairly typical for SoCal's summer weather pattern. Overnight the coastal fog rolls in and hangs around until about noon or so, then starts to recede, only to come back in again during the evening.


> If they had routed you just a bit further, you could have dropped in to see me.. 45min > X 350kts. Hmmm :)

LOL, rgr that! We tried to file high enough so ARTCC would route us above LAX's class B, but they weren't going to have any of that. Perhaps due to the 4th of July holiday... who knows anymore...

> Great shots,

Thanks!


Ben


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"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by alanpugh on 07-08-02 at 17:02z
Yeeow! What great pictures. I love seeing real-life
shots of the places we fly in FS all the time.

Thanks, Ben.

Alan

"RE: Leering from a Learjet"
Posted by Ben_Chiu on 07-08-02 at 18:38z
> Yeeow! What great pictures. I love seeing real-life
> shots of the places we fly in FS all the time.
>
> Thanks, Ben.

You're most welcome, Alan!

Just FYI, we've started a collection of real world shots like these in our General Aviation Adventures Logs. If anyone has pictures they want to submit/share, just let us know.

Ben


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