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TomParsons Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: "Torqued-Off About Hammers" 06-30-03, 22:26z  Looking back on this forum, I see we are missing the obligatory "what's wrong with my hammers?" thread. So let's remedy that omission! I was up last weekend practicing the Sportsman sequence in my S-1S (great fun, and not a bad workout!). One of the multitude of problems I'm having is with my hammerheads. Upline- fine, if a little wandering. Downline- well, too short and probably a little positive. But the thing that's really getting me scratching my head is this- it looks like I'm consistently off by 20 or 30 degrees after the pivot, even with what I think is full aileron deflection. I think I've got the stick buried in the front-left corner, in fact. Am I maybe kicking too early? Too late? I'm trying to use the "1 or 2 inches of aileron deflection" method of timing the kick. Maybe the full aileron is coming in too late? I kick first, then come in with the aileron, then forward stick, just like Mike Goulian's book says. Thanks in advance. Tom P. Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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Subject      Author      Message Date     ID      RE: Torqued-Off About Hammers KendalSimpson 06-30-03 1    RE: Torqued-Off About Hammers TomParsons 07-01-03 2   RE: Torqued-Off About Hammers Patty_Wagstaff 07-02-03 3    RE: Torqued-Off About Hammers TomParsons 07-02-03 4

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KendalSimpson Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 1. "RE: Torqued-Off About Hammers" 06-30-03, 23:51z  Hey Tom Other people will be much more qualified than me to answer you but I'll tell you what I know. First off I think you had a typo. If you got a Lycoming in that thing you should be kicking that left foot so the stick should be in the top Right corner. I found that I needed to add the aileron sooner that I thought I needed to after consistently torquing off at the top of my hammers. I started putting in aileron and some forward stick as soon as I kicked and it helped some. I started kicking earlier to stop the torque effect (I diddn't have enough aileron to stop it) but then I was told I was flying over the top. Something that seemed to work for me was to pull a little power out just as I was starting to kick. It lessened the torque effect and seemed to work. I just flew my new prop for the first time on Saturday and it was much easier to do good hammers with it. The old metal prop weighed 33 lbs. and the new one is only 13 lbs. It also fixed my CG problem so the plane snaps better, spins better etc... I don't know how conventional the pull the power thing is but it seemed to work for me. You just have to make sure you do it at the same time to make is predictable. One more thing it's pretty critical where you look during the hammer. I glance at both wing tips on the vertical (left right left) to set the line (no siteing device on my plane)then I would stare at the left wing for the initial pivot. As the plane pivots you stare at the same spot on the horizon and let the plane rotate around it. so you see left wing, over the nose, right wing. Bam set the vertical line because your looking at the wing tip instead of the ground. You can also tell when the airplane torques off. This might all be bad advice as most of it was self taught but I Hope this helps. Those of you who really know what your doing tell us how you do it. Kendal Simpson www.littletootaerobatics.com Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

TomParsons Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 2. "RE: Torqued-Off About Hammers" 07-01-03, 15:05z  Kendal- Thanks for the feedback! >First off I >think you had a typo. If you got a Lycoming in that thing >you should be kicking that left foot so the stick should >be in the top Right corner. Umm, yeah, that's what I meant. I was thinking foot and talking hand, if you know what I mean. Maybe I'll save the thing I typed for the air show circuit! >I found that I needed to add >the aileron sooner that I thought I needed to after >consistently torquing off at the top of my hammers. I >started putting in aileron and some forward stick as soon >as I kicked and it helped some. I'll try that. I think I'm waiting for the pivot to get a good rate going before putting in the last of the RIGHT aileron. >I started kicking earlier >to stop the torque effect (I didn't have enough aileron >to stop it) but then I was told I was flying over the top. Hmmm. I was hoping there was a sweet spot in there somewhere, where I'd get enough control effectiveness without flying it over the top. >Something that seemed to work for me was to pull a little >power out just as I was starting to kick. It lessened the >torque effect and seemed to work... I >don't know how conventional the pull the power thing is >but it seemed to work for me. You just have to make sure >you do it at the same time to make is predictable. I have heard talk of some people trying that, but also less positive things about that method. I assume you don't pull very much power- just a touch, right? Because I thought that power is needed to keep the rudder effective. >I just flew my new prop >for the first time on Saturday and it was much easier to >do good hammers with it. The old metal prop weighed 33 >lbs. and the new one is only 13 lbs. It also fixed my CG >problem so the plane snaps better, spins better etc... Oh, great. Now you can kick my butt even farther! >One >more thing it's pretty critical where you look during the >hammer. I glance at both wing tips on the vertical (left >right left) to set the line (no siteing device on my >plane)then I would stare at the left wing for the initial >pivot. As the plane pivots you stare at the same spot on >the horizon and let the plane rotate around it. so you >see left wing, over the nose, right wing. I was taught that in my first hammerheads flown dual, but I have yet to remember to do it myself... Well, now I've got some things to try. Are you going to be up at the Sullivan or Kobelt boxes this weekend? Tom P. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Patty_Wagstaff Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 3. "RE: Torqued-Off About Hammers" 07-02-03, 01:09z  Tom It sounds to me as if you are doing the turn around too early. If you're 20 - 30 deg. off each time, I'd bet that would be it. It sounds as though you need someone on the ground who knows what they are looking at to tell you when to kick. It might also help to put a piece of yarn on the I strut. When the yard stops moving, you're ready to pivot. Also, the airplane usually shudders and shakes a bit when really stopped. Try adding right rudder as the airplane slows down to keep it from falling off on the left wing. Try a bit of forward stick as you're kicking around, however if everything is squared up first you shouldn't need it. Hope this helps. Patty Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

TomParsons Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 4. "RE: Torqued-Off About Hammers" 07-02-03, 14:44z  Patty- >It sounds to me as if you are doing the turn around too >early. If you're 20 - 30 deg. off each time, I'd bet that >would be it. It sounds as though you need someone on the >ground who knows what they are looking at to tell you when >to kick. I'll give that a try. I had someone on the ground watching my first attempts at hammers, and they did note one where I was pretty much stopped by the time I kicked. I remember the ailerons felt very loose on that one, but unfortunately I don't remember if I was closer to being lined up right after the pivot. I thought that particular hammer was going too far on the slow-down scale, but maybe it was just right! >It might also help to put a piece of yarn on the >I strut. When the yard stops moving, you're ready to >pivot. Also, the airplane usually shudders and shakes a >bit when really stopped. I have a length of yarn on the sight gauge, but I haven't been looking at it- I have been doing the "aileron deflection" thing. I'll try looking at the yarn. >Try adding right rudder as the airplane slows down to keep >it from falling off on the left wing. I'm doing that, but still hunting around a bit on the way up. I just need more practice there to smooth out my inputs. >Try a bit of forward stick as you're kicking around, >however if everything is squared up first you shouldn't >need it. I have been using lots of forward stick (too much maybe?). Well, I have a lot of stuff to try. Thanks for the detailed feedback! Tom P. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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