Return to the VPC Lobby
FlightAdventures Virtual Pilot Center™

Need an account? Register here.

Return to AerobaticSource Lobby
Get the VPC OffLine Reader here!

"Bounced Landings: How to reduce them"

Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
 
Previous Topic | Next Topic  
VPC Forums Flight Training
Original message

Ben_Chiu[Admin]

Click to EMail Ben_Chiu Click to send private message to Ben_Chiu Click to view user profile


Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations:

VPC certificates and ratings

"Bounced Landings: How to reduce them"
03-14-04, 21:37z 

Greetings!

I know we kid guys about bounced landings during our Saturday informal flights, but the consistency of landing problems leads me to believe a few pointers may be appropriate.

Bounced landings can be caused by any or all of the following:

- Too much vertical velocity and bouncy landing gear
- Improper flare technique (usually overcontrolling the airplane)
- Trying to land with too much airspeed and/or power

I believe the most common problem we're seeing is the latter. There are a combination of factors that would make this true:

- The flight plans we've been using on these flights have not included POD (Point of Descent) or DP (Descent Point). As a result, pilots have been coming in high and hot (fast). As you know, if you point the nose down to make the runway, your airspeed will either remain high or increase. Trying to land at too high of an airspeed will allow the wings to remain flying even though you want to land. A DP would reduce this problem and make it easier to fly a stabilized approach (see below). The way you come up with a DP is figure out how many miles it would take to descend at a constant rate of descent. For example, if you're cruising at 6,500 feet down to a pattern altitude of 1,500 feet, you need to descend 5,000 feet. A comfortable rate of descent in a C172 is about 500 to 750fpm. So to descend 5,000 feet would take 10 minutes @ 500fpm. At your descent airspeed, you can figure out how many miles you'd cover in 10 minutes and backtrack a point on your flight plan to place a DP.

- We change aircraft fairly regularly. With the ability to fly many more different aircraft in FS than you could possibly fly in real life, we tend to fly aircraft that are not all that common from one to the other. As a result, the performance capabilities and, more importantly, V speeds are very different. One of the problems with flying 3rd party aircraft is the POH information is usually not available (especially if you're flying something old or exotic). So if you try and land an aircraft at too high of an airspeed, well, see above.

- I realize that some of the guys that fly with us on Saturdays are not involved with real flight training, so the concept of stabilized approaches may be new to you. The basic idea is to fly your approach to landing at a constant airspeed. Of course the aircraft you're flying, and the landing weight of the aircraft will change what your airspeed should be. To complicate matters, depending on whether you're on an IFR approach or landing from the pattern will change how fast you should be going. For example, an IFR approach in a C172 should be made at about 90 knots, with a Vref (landing reference speed - which is a term typically only used in turbine aicraft, but the concept can be used here and will help later on when you fly turbines) between 60-70 knots. Just FYI, if Vref is not available, use 1.3 Vs (stall speed - clean configuration) as a rule of thumb and that should get you in the ballpark for aircraft flown in FS. Landing at Vref will allow you to land with a minimum of excess airspeed, and hopefully that'll help reduce the "number" of touchdowns made per landing. :)

Let's see if this helps reduce airport dramas and runway repairs. :)

Hope this helps!

Ben


-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Ben Chiu
-OLR.PL v1.83-

Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top


  Table of Contents

  Subject      Author      Message Date     ID   
  RE: Bounced Landings: How to reduce... tb[Lead] 03-15-04 1
   RE: Bounced Landings: How to reduce... vgbaron[Sysop] 03-15-04 2

Forums | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

tb[Lead]

Click to EMail tb Click to send private message to tb Click to view user profile


Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations:

VPC certificates and ratings

1. "RE: Bounced Landings: How to reduce them"
03-15-04, 01:16z 


Ben, Ben, Ben, I have been waitng for the educational facts u have put forth in "Bounced Landings". Mind u ur essay pinpoints the problems I have observed over the past several Saturdays. I am hopeful three in particular will heed ur experience. Not to embarrace them, which I think u so tackfully accomplished I would just reluctantly ask them to put their pride aside and and practice ur advice.
I might say number one of the three has an accent. As for alittle chop while were flying this Matte equates it to sea swells. He always signs off with "Calm Seas". I guess he never heard of "Blue Sky's". Another has been on Medicare for several years and has to go to let the CAT in all the time. I think its a urinenation problem. The third well he usually transfers planes at the end of the flight to a HELO. Of course this is understandable since his last attempt was to land a 777 on 29 and ended up just past the center of downtown San Luis Obispo! This individual also has a HELO "Buddy" and he as number one speaks with an accent. His nick name is "Navigator".
Landing behind these three always means there are newly created runway pot holes, plane parts on the runway and the flashing emergency lights from the fire and rescue vehicles can be blinding the last 100 ft.
Ben, if the three can not improve might I suggest u give them a "GO AROUND.........to SANTA MARIA!".
Ben, its been awhile, lets do lunch. Ur Buddy Chuck Yeager.

Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top


vgbaron[Sysop]

Click to EMail vgbaron Click to send private message to vgbaron Click to view user profile


Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations:

VPC certificates and ratings

2. "RE: Bounced Landings: How to reduce..."
03-15-04, 05:51z 

LOL!

Now - I wonder who you're talking about???


Vic


-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Vic Baron
-OLR.PL v1.83-

Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top



Lock | Archive | Remove

Forums | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

 


Terms of Use

There are currently
Copyright © 2000- FlightAdventures. All rights reserved.

Powered by DCForum