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"Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP (proposed route)"

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RobertVA

Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations:

"Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP (proposed route)"
03-03-04, 17:54z

Edwards AFB to San Luis Co. Regional
Lockheed P-38M-6-L O Lightning
Waypoint
Name
Type
Frequency
Altitude
Heading
Distance
Est. Spd.
ETE
KEDW
Edwards
Apt

GMN
Gorman
VOR DME
116.10
10,500
249
47
325
0:09
FLW
Fellows
VOR DME
117.50
10,500
275
52
325
0:10
KSBP
San Luis
Apt

209
268
39
195 (avg)
0:16
Total

138

0:36
Departure Airport Information
KEDW
Edwards AFB
ST/CO: CA
Unicom:
CTAF: 120.70
LAT: N34° 54.33'
LON: W117° 53.02'
Elevation: 2302

4/22
15,008 ft

22
ILS
110.10
6/24
8,000 ft

Destination Airport Information
KSBP
San Luis Co. Regional
ST/CO: CA
Unicom: 122.9
CTAF: 124.00
LAT: N35° 14.21'
LON W120° 38.51'
Elevation: 209
ATIS: 120.60
11/29
5325 ft
11
ILS
109.7

7/25
3175 ft

At the close of the 0300z March 3 chat interest appeared to favor a KEDW to KSBP flight.
I was able to fly the same route in the DC-3, but it took about twice as long with the tachometer at the top of the yellow range for most of the cruise. I had the prop pitch at maximum for the entire flight.
Robert
Near KORF

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Original message

  Subject      Author      Message Date     ID

RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... RobertVA 03-03-04 1

   RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... Ben_Chiu 03-03-04 2

        RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... andor 03-03-04 3

             RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... andor 03-04-04 4

                  RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... Ben_Chiu 03-04-04 5

             RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... RobertVA 03-04-04 6

                  RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... tb 03-04-04 7

                  RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... Ben_Chiu 03-05-04 9

                       RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... RobertVA 03-06-04 12

                            RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... Ben_Chiu 03-07-04 14

   RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... PL965Melo 03-05-04 8

        RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... Ben_Chiu 03-05-04 10

             RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... PL965Melo 03-06-04 11

                  RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... RobertVA 03-07-04 13

                       RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... PL965Melo 03-09-04 16

                  RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ... Ben_Chiu 03-07-04 15

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RobertVA

Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations:

1. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP (proposed route)"
03-03-04, 18:09z

Edwards AFB to San Luis Co. Regional
Lockheed P-38M-6-L O Lightning
Waypoint
Name
Type
Frequency
Altitude
Heading
Distance
Est. Spd.
ETE
KEDW
Edwards
Apt

GMN
Gorman
VOR DME
116.10
10,500
249
47
325
0:09
FLW
Fellows
VOR DME
117.50
10,500
275
52
325
0:10
KSBP
San Luis
Apt

209
268
39
195 (avg)
0:16
Total

138

0:36
Departure Airport Information
KEDW
Edwards AFB
ST/CO: CA
Unicom:
CTAF: 120.70
LAT: N34° 54.33'
LON: W117° 53.02'
Elevation: 2302

4/22
15,008 ft

22
ILS
110.10
6/24
8,000 ft

Destination Airport Information
KSBP
San Luis Co. Regional
ST/CO: CA
Unicom: 122.9
CTAF: 124.00
LAT: N35° 14.21'
LON W120° 38.51'
Elevation: 209
ATIS: 120.60
11/29
5325 ft
11
ILS
109.7

7/25
3175 ft

Sorry about the first copy spilling the ETE off the right edge of the page. The second copy should appear on page 2 and show all the columns.
Robert
Near KORF

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Ben_Chiu

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2. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP (proposed route)"
03-03-04, 21:32z

Greetings Robert:
Thanks so much for the flight plans. I know the guys really appreciate the work you put into them.
Looking over the flight (I figure I should contribute something since I won't be making the flight), since the flight time is shorter than our usual flights, perhaps it should be flown at 250 knots (as it would IRL if you cruised at 8,500'). I think the Tejon pass would be "interesting" at that altitude.
We can change the weather to clear skies for the flight to increase visibility. Just let me know before Friday.
Ben

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andor

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3. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP (proposed route)"
03-03-04, 22:37z

G,day Guys,
Fully concur with Ben Robert, many thanks for all your flight plans.
So THATS what it,s called Ben (Tejon Pass), yep I went through at 8500 with 2/8 cloud, base at 5000 tops 8500, as you say veeery "interesting" !!
Just for my 10cents worth, to make it a bit more "interesting" suggestion, from FLW,vectors to intercept KSBP r/w 29 ILS for an instrument approach.. definately clear skies for this one Ben
I did the flight in the King Air with all those lovely Nav1 Nav2 etc dials. (One thing I miss in the P38 Vic with only the one Nav1 and DF ) I didn,t time the flight but pretty sure it can be done under the hour as I did a couple of touch and goes at the small grass strips along the way.
Looking forward to KEDW
See you all Friday,
Andy

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andor

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4. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP (proposed route)"
03-04-04, 00:12z

Done it again guys
In my post read "vectors to intercept KSBP r/w 11 Ils" instead of 29 Ils.
Regards
Andy

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Ben_Chiu

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5. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ..."
03-04-04, 00:57z

Greetings Andy:
> In my post read "vectors to intercept KSBP r/w 11 Ils" instead of 29
> Ils.
Actually, there is no ILS to rwy 29. The only ILS is for 11.

Ben

-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Ben Chiu
-OLR.PL v1.83-

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RobertVA

Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations:

6. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP (proposed route)"
03-04-04, 05:25z

I have been leaving final approach fixes off the plans due to uncertainties about what wind direction will be generated by the flight room's automatic weather feature. Times I have heard the wind direction it often seems to favor landing on runway 29. I'm not even sure if the ATIS function is supposed to work in multiplayer, as I haven't heard it when tuning the COM radion to the appropriate frequency the last couple of weeks. I haven't been able to locate audio selector switches (or a fuel tank selector valve) on any of the P-38 panels either.
I ussualy turn about 45 degrees off the plan's final leg a few dozen miles short of KSBP and watch the GPS for when it indicates KSBP is in the direction of the runway heading. You can also enter the route in the simulator's flight planner and use the mouse to drag the last line to the final approach fix for the runway you want to land at, assuming wind conditions don't make it nessesary to land in the opposite direction.
The GPS units in FS 2004 have built in approach vectoring capabilities that can be selected in flight as dictated by developing weather conditions. I've played with them a bit, but haven't reach a point where I can be aviseing people about procedures to activate them.
Robert
Near KORF

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tb

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7. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP (proposed route)"
03-04-04, 13:10z

Out of town, see ya Tue. TB

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Ben_Chiu

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9. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ..."
03-05-04, 02:50z

Greetings Robert:
> I have been leaving final approach fixes off the plans due to
> uncertainties about what wind direction will be generated by the flight
> room's automatic weather feature. Times I have heard the wind direction
> it often seems to favor landing on runway 29. I'm not even sure if the
> ATIS function is supposed to work in multiplayer, as I haven't heard it
> when tuning the COM radion to the appropriate frequency the last couple
> of weeks.
ATIS in M/P mode does work. It announces weather in the Persistent World Flight. ATIS at KSBP is 120.6.

> I haven't been able to locate audio selector switches (or a
> fuel tank selector valve) on any of the P-38 panels either.
>
> I ussualy turn about 45 degrees off the plan's final leg a few dozen
> miles short of KSBP and watch the GPS for when it indicates KSBP is in
> the direction of the runway heading. You can also enter the route in the
> simulator's flight planner and use the mouse to drag the last line to
> the final approach fix for the runway you want to land at, assuming wind
> conditions don't make it nessesary to land in the opposite direction.
What Vic does can work; pick one of the GPS 29 waypoints (preferably an IAF on the final approach course) like CADAB or HALDA.

> The GPS units in FS 2004 have built in approach vectoring capabilities
> that can be selected in flight as dictated by developing weather
> conditions.
Just FYI, GPS vectoring requires ATC vectors (e.g. a live or computer AI ATC controller).
Ben

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RobertVA

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12. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ..."
03-06-04, 06:25z

>ATIS in M/P mode does work. It announces weather in the
>Persistent World Flight. ATIS at KSBP is 120.6.
Must be something about the P-38's radio then. In several flights I have set the standby frequency on the COM radio to 120.60 and clicked the button to put the frequency in the active side of the COM radio and never heard ATIS while flying to, and parking at KSBP. On one occasion I awitched to another plane and the audio section of the radio stack was already showing the audio for COM active.
Was a way to make the ATIS announcement match the persistant flights weather implimented? A few minutes ago I was reading a thread which indicated the automatic weather wasn't able to make the ATIS announcements change.
>What Vic does can work; pick one of the GPS 29 waypoints
>(preferably an IAF on the final approach course) like
>CADAB or HALDA.
How would that help if someone wants to land on runway 11 (or wind direction demands it)? Of course we could fly past the field and do a procedure turn, but if we're going to do that we could forget about final approach fixes, overfly the field and enter the pattern. Since many runways don't parallel a VOR radial or have a localizer, a lot of landings must involve a significant amount of navigation by eye and compass anyway.
>> The GPS units in FS 2004 have built in approach vectoring capabilities
>> that can be selected in flight as dictated by developing weather
>> conditions.
>
>Just FYI, GPS vectoring requires ATC vectors (e.g. a live
>or computer AI ATC controller).
I thought we were flying VFR in the scheduled flights. The map doesn't seem to be indicating Class B or C airspace. I thought ATC would normaly leave VFR planes to their own navigation (mark one eyball, radio navigation or GPS) towards the Final Approach Fix.
GPS vectors to FAF seems to work in FS 2004 while in the persistant flight on my system. I clicked the procedure button on the GPS and selected the approach to load and later for "vectors to final" in the manner listed in the learning center. The course to the Final Aproach Fix appeared on the left side of the GPS display. Once I crossed the FAF, the GPS showed the course towards the runway.
I beleive FS 2002 users could use the "direct to" function of the GPS, selecting the FAF intersection.
Robert
Near KORF

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Ben_Chiu

Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations:

14. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ..."
03-07-04, 19:14z

Greetings Robert:
> Must be something about the P-38's radio then. In several flights I have
> set the standby frequency on the COM radio to 120.60 and clicked the
> button to put the frequency in the active side of the COM radio and
> never heard ATIS while flying to, and parking at KSBP. On one occasion I
> awitched to another plane and the audio section of the radio stack was
> already showing the audio for COM active.
>
> Was a way to make the ATIS announcement match the persistant flights
> weather implimented? A few minutes ago I was reading a thread which
> indicated the automatic weather wasn't able to make the ATIS
> announcements change.
OK, I did a couple of tests and it turns out that if you connect to the PWF through FS directly (as opposed to the using the Flight Terminal), ATIS does not work. However, if you use the Flight Terminal or connect via FS directly, but do not enter the cockpit first before connecting, ATIS in the PWF does work.
I tried this with the P-38 as well, and it seems the problem is as described above and not with the P-38 COM stack.

> >What Vic does can work; pick one of the GPS 29 waypoints
> >(preferably an IAF on the final approach course) like
> >CADAB or HALDA.
>
> How would that help if someone wants to land on runway 11 (or wind
> direction demands it)? Of course we could fly past the field and do a
> procedure turn, but if we're going to do that we could forget about
> final approach fixes, overfly the field and enter the pattern. Since
> many runways don't parallel a VOR radial or have a localizer, a lot of
> landings must involve a significant amount of navigation by eye and
> compass anyway.
If you fly VFR, using your eye is exactly what you'd be using to find the airport and enter the pattern. How it should work is you use the GPS waypoints as a reference points to orient yourself to the airport if visibility isn't very good and/or if you're unfamiliar with the airport. If the runway in use at SBP is 11 for this example, you can still use one the GPS waypoints to help find the airport. However, note that you may not have to fly out to the waypoint because you may see the airport before you get there. Normally, once you have the airport in sight, you'd break off and enter the pattern for 11 using the entry as instructed by SBP tower.
I suppose I should also explain that these GPS waypoints that I listed above were selected because from Edwards, you'd be approaching from the south east.

> >> The GPS units in FS 2004 have built in approach vectoring
> capabilities
> >> that can be selected in flight as dictated by developing weather
> >> conditions.
> >
> >Just FYI, GPS vectoring requires ATC vectors (e.g. a live
> >or computer AI ATC controller).
>
> I thought we were flying VFR in the scheduled flights. The map doesn't
> seem to be indicating Class B or C airspace. I thought ATC would normaly
> leave VFR planes to their own navigation (mark one eyball, radio
> navigation or GPS) towards the Final Approach Fix.
ATC vectoring is available if there is radar service available. At KSBP, radar services are provided by Los Angeles Center ARTCC. However, vectoring is an IFR service.
> GPS vectors to FAF seems to work in FS 2004 while in the persistant
> flight on my system. I clicked the procedure button on the GPS and
> selected the approach to load and later for "vectors to final" in the
> manner listed in the learning center. The course to the Final Aproach
> Fix appeared on the left side of the GPS display. Once I crossed the
> FAF, the GPS showed the course towards the runway.
I think I understand what you're getting at now. You're using the GPS vectoring function of the GPS and not GPS vectoring procedure. Yes, as you've indicated, you can use it like that. But as you're probably aware, if the runway isn't the one you're expecting, there's a lot of button pushing (head down time) when you're near the airport (and other airplanes!). Not a good combination!

Ben

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Registered to: Ben Chiu
-OLR.PL v1.83-

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PL965Melo

Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations:

8. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP (proposed route)"
03-05-04, 01:04z

Hi Robert,
>
Edwards AFB to San Luis Co. Regional
Lockheed
>P-38M-6-L O Lightning
This sounds good. I want to join in this week.
When exactly is the flight? Is it Saturday evening from 19:00 to 20:00 Pacific
time. The message header says Sunday, but maybe that is referring to an early
morning Zulu time?
>The second copy should appear on page 2
>and show all the columns.
Flight plan looks great, thanks for working out the details. I will get
it loaded up in FSNav 4 and use the 8,500 ft Altitude proposed by Ben.
BTW, there is a great scenery for Edwards AFB on flightsim.com called
KEDW101.zip. About 7 Mb but well worth the download. Looks fantastic
in FS2004! :-)
If you are using the KEDW scenery for this flight, I will be parked just to the
right of the row of F-18's on the yellow line in my P-38, facing toward the
control tower.
Is it possible to arrange a practice Flight Terminal connection with
someone else Friday evening or maybe Saturday morning? Or can I just test
it myself? Already have Roger Wilco setup.
Interestingly enough, the online IVAO flight I was invited to join with a
friend the other weekend also started at KEDW! That flight we flew DC-9's
to Aspen Colorado.
Quite a coincidence that you picked the same starting Airport this time.
How did you guess? :-)
Regards,
Melo
PL965 Spitfire pilot,
Glendale, CA

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Ben_Chiu

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10. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ..."
03-05-04, 03:00z

Greetings Melo:
> Is it possible to arrange a practice Flight Terminal connection with
> someone else Friday evening or maybe Saturday morning? Or can I just
> test
> it myself? Already have Roger Wilco setup.
The Persistent World Flight in the Flight Terminal is open 24/7. You can test it at any time yourself. If you connect properly, the PWF will "talk" to you and you'll see some other weather than your single-player setting.
Let us know if you have any trouble. It's all automated so you shouldn't have any problem as long as you wait for the pages to load (e.g. don't go clicking around or shutting pages before they load, etc..)

Ben

-= VPC OffLine Reader 2.1 =-
Registered to: Ben Chiu
-OLR.PL v1.83-

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PL965Melo

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11. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ..."
03-06-04, 05:32z

Hi Ben,
>The Persistent World Flight in the Flight Terminal is open
>24/7. You can test it at any time yourself. If you connect
>properly, the PWF will "talk" to you and you'll see some
>other weather than your single-player setting.
Ok, I made it in tonight just fine and got to KSBP in a P-38 Lightning. Robert was also in the session at the same time and I hope I did not scare him too much flying around in the fog. :-) At one point Robert and I were at opposite ends of the runway in our P-38's. I sat there and watched him take off and pass overhead before I started my takeoff roll. Pretty cool! And Robert, I apologize if I interrupted your flight patterns at all.
>Let us know if you have any trouble. It's all automated so
>you shouldn't have any problem as long as you wait for the
>pages to load (e.g. don't go clicking around or shutting
>pages before they load, etc..)
Now that I successfully got in there are still a few remaining questions.
1) Which default parking spaces at KBSP are already occupied by static aircraft?
2) How does Roger Wilco interface with the system when in the FS2004 program. Robert was in the Simulator but not in ACARS like I was. Were we on different frequencies? I clicked on Unicom, but am not sure it worked.
3) I also have FSNav 4.6 linked to my FS2004. Is there a way to add FSNav to the multiplayer VPC connection so I could track other aircraft and their flight paths.
4) And most important, when exactly this weekend is the KEDW-KSBP flight scheduled for?
I have to go into work Saturday morning and work most of the day (Our IT group is installing a bunch of computers in a new building for some of our Customers so they can get back to work on Monday.), but I would still like to join the flight this weekend if the timing works out.
Thanks a lot!
Best regards,
Melo
PL965 Spitfire pilot,
Glendale, CA

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RobertVA

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13. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ..."
03-07-04, 02:49z

I saw you, waited for a bit so we wouldn't have an unplanned meeting over the runway center point. I was experimenting a bit with the GPS approach pattern features and their compatability with multiplayer. I had joined the flight using the server's IP address and hadn't activated ACARS. All that fog got to be a bit much with all the hills around KSBP though, especially while trying to work the GPS unit.

I haven't realy compared FS 2004's parking locations to the locations of static aircraft in the Central California Coast scenery

Roger Wilco is a seperate process that comunicates directly with a Roger Wilco host process on the server. The client process on you machine can be launched with buttons on the chat pages and the flight room pages. Roger wilco doesn't utilize the Flight Simulator process on you machine or the FSHost server / host process on the FlightAdventures host computer.

I'm not familiar with the keystrokes or clicks to operate FS Nav in multiplayer, but each of the other pilots frequenting the flight show up as two players, the FS Nav showing as an ID starting with *. I think they use F9 to switch to FS NAV and click a button. I imagine there's a text entry block for the identifier for the FS NAV "player".

0300z Sunday morning. Here in america it's still Saturday evening at that time (2200 on East coast, 1900 in California)
Sorry I took so long to ansewer, was out of the house most of the day.
Robert
Near KORF

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PL965Melo

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16. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ..."
03-09-04, 01:10z

Hi Robert,
>I saw you, waited for a bit so we wouldn't have an
>unplanned meeting over the runway center point.
Yes, as soon as I saw you down at the other end pointed
straight at me, pulled back to idle and watched you go by
overhead. Cool!
>All that fog got to be a bit much with all the
>hills around KSBP though, especially while trying to work
>the GPS unit.
The fog was a bit much for me too. Kept getting pretty
close to some of the hills around the field. Still
learning my way around the KSBP area.
>
Roger Wilco is a seperate process that comunicates
>directly with a Roger Wilco host process on the server.
>The client process on you machine can be launched with
>buttons on the chat pages and the flight room pages.
Ok, that makes sense. I will try Unicom again next time
as Ben also suggested.
>I think they use
>F9 to switch to FS NAV and click a button. I imagine
>there's a text entry block for the identifier for the FS
>NAV "player".

Ok, that sounds pretty simple. I can just get someone to
talk me through it on the next flight once we are all on
voice.
>
0300z Sunday morning. Here in america it's still
>Saturday evening at that time (2200 on East coast, 1900 in
>California)

>
>Sorry I took so long to ansewer, was out of the house most
>of the day.
Don't worry about taking long to answer, see my comments
below.
1900 is a good time for me. It just wasn't meant to be
this week though. Spend 12 hours this weekend at work with
2 and sometimes 3 other guys moving 60+ complete computer
systems from our main building to their new building across
the street.
As it was I got home at almost exactly 1900 on Saturday
evening. But didn't have the strength left to hold a
joystick steady, let alone fly a P-38 in formation. :-)
My wife fed me supper, and our family watched a video, then
I went straight to bed. Did not get a chance to check the
message board until Sunday morning before putting in
another half day at work.
Thanks for the info, and hope to finally join up with you
next week.
Regards,
Melo
PL965 Spitfire pilot,
Glendale, CA

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Ben_Chiu

Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations:

15. "RE: Mar. 7 Multiplayer KEDW - KSBP ..."
03-07-04, 19:15z

Greetings Melo:
Glad you got it figured out. I didn't think you'd have any problems. If you can figure out SqawkBox, etc., our system would be a piece of cake.
> Now that I successfully got in there are still a few remaining
> questions.
>
> 1) Which default parking spaces at KBSP are already occupied by static
> aircraft?
I don't know for sure, but as far as I know, none.

> 2) How does Roger Wilco interface with the system when in the FS2004
> program. Robert was in the Simulator but not in ACARS like I was. Were
> we on different frequencies? I clicked on Unicom, but am not sure it
> worked.
You can either install our VoiceCOM util to have RW access from inside FS, or as Robert explained, use our VoiceCOM page or use the VoiceCOM buttons in the Flight Terminal.
Since we're usually limited to one ATC Controller at a time, we use UNICOM for most functions.

> 3) I also have FSNav 4.6 linked to my FS2004. Is there a way to add
> FSNav to the multiplayer VPC connection so I could track other aircraft
> and their flight paths.
Yes, but I'll let one of the guys that use FSNav explain.

> 4) And most important, when exactly this weekend is the KEDW-KSBP flight
> scheduled for?
Same Bat-time, same Bat-channel every week!

Ben

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Registered to: Ben Chiu
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Edwards AFB to San Luis Co. Regional

Lockheed P-38M-6-L O Lightning

Edwards AFB to San Luis Co. Regional

Lockheed P-38M-6-L O Lightning

Edwards AFB to San Luis Co. Regional

Lockheed >P-38M-6-L O Lightning

Lockheed
>P-38M-6-L O Lightning