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gooper Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: "which joystick to buy??" 07-30-02, 00:20z  Hi as I am new to this flight sim thing I am trying to buy all the necessary tools to get the most out of this addictive hobby. right now i am just using Tthe keyboard and oh what a treat that is (NOT!!) i need to know from u folks out ther which is the best joystick to buy- i know this is a very subjective question but i really do need your input and is it better to go with the force feedback joystick? will this type really help u "feel" the flight pressures inherent in the real thing or is just a gimmick? i am willing to spend top dollars so i need a really good one that is also bug free. i welcome everyone's input for this one!!! regards, gooper Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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Subject      Author      Message Date     ID      RE: which joystick to buy?? Ben_Chiu 07-30-02 1    RE: which joystick to buy?? gooper 07-30-02 4         RE: which joystick to buy?? Ben_Chiu 07-30-02 5   RE: which joystick to buy?? PaulCroft 07-30-02 2    RE: which joystick to buy?? gooper 07-30-02 3         RE: which joystick to buy?? PaulCroft 07-31-02 6   RE: which joystick to buy?? awheeler 08-01-02 7   RE: which joystick to buy?? maurice 08-04-02 8   RE: which joystick to buy?? Vulcan 08-08-02 9    RE: which joystick to buy?? PeteDowson 08-08-02 10         RE: which joystick to buy?? Vulcan 08-09-02 11              RE: which joystick to buy?? PeteDowson 08-09-02 12

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Ben_Chiu Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 1. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 07-30-02, 06:17z  Greetings gooper: What type of things do you plan on doing with your controller? I ask this because you may be interested in a controller (e.g. flight yoke) rather than a joystick. The only advice I can give you at this point is what ever you get, make sure it's USB. In my experience, they're much easier to setup and are typically more precise. Ben -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.3.1 =- Registered to: Ben Chiu -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

gooper Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 4. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 07-30-02, 21:19z  Hi ben i will mostly be using it for jet flying as these are my favorite aircraft. how do u like force feedback as a feature?is it worth it? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Ben_Chiu Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 5. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 07-30-02, 22:46z  Greetings gooper: > Hi ben i will mostly be using it for jet flying as these are my > favorite aircraft. As you may know, jets are controlled by yokes and sticks, so that doesn't narrow it down much. For military jets, I think the Thrustmaster F22 (now called the Cougar or something like that) is tops. > how do u like force feedback as a feature? is it worth it? The best FFB stick I've used is the now discontinued one from CH products. The current "leader" is the Logitech cable driven model (although I don't really like the grip and prefer the larger CH grip). Worth it? Like most of this stuff, you can have the best hardware in the world, but if the software isn't up to par, it'll make the hardware seem poor. For example, the CH products stick was very good, but how good it felt depended on the sim you used/FFB programming. For me, the only value for FFB in GA sims is to feel control resistance for learning to use the trim. The ground bumps, gear extend, etc, are just fluff and if anything, distract from the experience IMHO. However, for air combat sims (prop sims in particular), FFB greatly enhanced your ability to detect the edges of the performance envelope--making you a better pilot. Hope this helps! Ben -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.3.1 =- Registered to: Ben Chiu -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PaulCroft Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 2. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 07-30-02, 12:39z  Hi Gooper >> which is the best joystick to buy ... is it better to go with the force feedback joystick? On my setup I use the CH USB yoke and pedals (a little over £100 each) for general flightsimming and the Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro joystick when I want to fly helicopters or have a bit of fun in Combat Flightsim. I've tried using the force feedback variation of the Sidewinder with MSFS aircraft and thought it was awful! When the aircraft is all trimmed out properly it gives the force feedback stick a horrible, large and lifeless deadzone. I have no experience of it in combat flightsim or with helicopters so I have no idea how it feels with these but I find the non-FF sidewinder a great general purpose joystick and wouldn't bother to pay out extra for the FF features. Needless to say, these are strictly personal views. Others might love the FF. Paul Croft 10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL) -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.0.0 =- Registered to: Paul F. Croft -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

gooper Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 3. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 07-30-02, 21:17z  thanks for the info paul, i have heard similar remarks about the FF feature before but wanted to get another opinion. I will look seriosly at the CH products-- have they performed well as far as stability goes I.e. no weird bugs when u use it? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PaulCroft Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 6. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 07-31-02, 23:25z  Hi Gooper >> I will look seriosly at the CH products-- have they performed well as far as stability goes I.e. no weird bugs when u use it? << None at all that I've found. Setup was straightforward with the winXP OS - so straightforward I don't recall any of it now <g>. Genuinely plug and play. Paul Croft 10 miles SE of Heathrow (EGLL) -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.0.0 =- Registered to: Paul F. Croft -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

awheeler Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 7. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 08-01-02, 13:29z  Gooper, A little belated, but you were wondering about FF joysticks. I just caught this thread on AVSIM that might help you decide if you want one and/or maybe which one to get: http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=7977&forum=DCForumID8 By the way, I'm using a Saitek Cyborg 3D and it works pretty well and is reasonably priced. Not built like a tank like my old steel Thrustmaster was but has lots more features and seems to hold calibration well. I haven't tried that MIG21 you mentioned but will check it out. Thanks. My favorite mil jet is Dino Cattaneo's F14. Very nice stable flier and looks wonderful. I'm using an F14 panel with HUD with it that is also very good. For the life of me I can't find out where I got the panel and the readme doesn't have the authors name but his e-mail is rossfr@yahoo.com. The filename of the d/l is a little atypical: F14PNL1.1.ZIP (Not a typo). Regards, Al Wheeler Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

maurice Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 8. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 08-04-02, 15:34z  Have used the CH Products USB yoke and pedals since they first came out. Easy to set up. Stable. Nice to use for all yoke a/c I've had here in FS. At the price they are excellent value at round about £100 here in the UK. You could pay several times as much but unless one is made of money I don't think it would be worth it. I've tried force feedback but I'm not impressed. I don't think you would have much to complain about with the CH Products Pro USB. Maurice (UK) Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Vulcan Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 9. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 08-08-02, 22:42z  Just to add to all the other threads two things I think are a 'must' are separate throttle and good rudder control. I started with a MSFF Sidewinder and hated the twist stick rudder control and the imprecise throttle control; the FF really is a bit of 'hand candy' as Ben says. I currently use a Saitek X36 (now 45) combo, stick and separate throttle, rudder control is via a rocker type lever on the throttle and is very effective. The stick, like most HOTAS sticks, has plenty of programmable buttons to assign to different functions. The downside is their programming software leaves a lot to be desired and can be a real pain in anything more modern than Win98, the upside is cost is reasonable. The new Thrustmaster Cougar is getting good reviews from those who prefer sticks to yokes although it is expensive. Stick with USB, not only are they easier to set up you can also add more controls, such as rudder pedals, later if you feel the need. Best of luck in your selection. -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.0.0 =- Registered to: Dave Wild -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PeteDowson Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 10. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 08-08-02, 23:19z  Hi Vulcan, > The stick, like most HOTAS sticks, has plenty of > programmable buttons to assign to different functions. > The downside is their programming software leaves a lot to be desired > and can be a real pain in anything more modern than Win98 I've added button programming to FSUIPC, Version 2.88, which I'm releasing tomorrow. You may like to try that when you get it, and let me know what you think. Regards, Pete -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.3.1 =- Registered to: Peter L. Dowson -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Vulcan Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 11. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 08-09-02, 18:15z  Thanks for the 'heads up' Pete, I always d/load your latest <g> and will certainly take at look at the new button programming. You may be aware of others designing programming s/ware specifically for the X36/45 but last I read it does not allow rotary programming and I never bothered to check if you could use their s/ware for the buttons and still retain rotary assignments from FS. Look forward to your new release, and as always many thanks for your continued work on this essential FS component. Rgds -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.3.1 =- Registered to: Dave Wild -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PeteDowson Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 12. "RE: which joystick to buy??" 08-09-02, 21:02z  Hi Vulcan, > You may be aware of others designing programming s/ware specifically for > the X36/45 No, I've never really used any proprietary joystick stuff. Been an EPIC user too long, before getting PFC gear. > but last I read it does not allow rotary programming and I > never bothered to check if you could use their s/ware for the buttons > and still retain rotary assignments from FS. Sorry, I don't know what the difference between "rotary programming" and "button programming" is in this context. All you can detect internally is whether buttons are pressed or not, and for axes, what relative position they are in. All the rotaries I've ever used simply "pulse" a button input as you turn them --- one button for one direction, a different button for the other direction. What do you mean by "rotary assignments"? Regards, Pete -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.3.1 =- Registered to: Peter L. Dowson -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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