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Guido_Ostkamp Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: "Aircrash" 07-02-02, 21:24z  Hi, just in case you have missed the sad news: There has happened a severe aircrash near southern Germany's Lake Bodensee yesterday about 21:40 Z (23:40 local time). A russian charter aircraft with about 60-70 people, mainly teenagers on a vacation trip to Spain, hit a DHL cargo freighter coming from Arabia. The aircrafts exploded and debris fell down in about a radius of 30km around the suspected crash site. Luckily no one on the ground was injured although large aircraft parts had hit the ground only a few meters from the buildings. All passengers and crew are considered to be dead. At first, it was assumed that the russian aircraft did not react in a timely manner on an order of swiss air control center to change the altitude. Latest news however seem to say that at least one of two controllers in the control center has had a break at the time of the crash and that the order for changing altitude might have come too late (only 50 seconds before the crash). It further seems, that at least one plane if not both had activated their automatic traffic approach warnings and tried an emergency descent which brought them on collision course again. Regards, Guido -OLR.PL v1.76- Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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Subject      Author      Message Date     ID      RE: Aircrash jonahbird 07-02-02 1   RE: Aircrash Ben_Chiu 07-02-02 2    RE: Aircrash Guido_Ostkamp 07-03-02 3    RE: Aircrash James 07-03-02 4   RE: Aircrash Guido_Ostkamp 07-12-02 5    RE: Aircrash Ben_Chiu 07-12-02 6

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jonahbird Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 1. "RE: Aircrash" 07-02-02, 23:10z  Guido This is sad sad news. Some 50 schoolchildren perished in this disaster. What a terrible coincidence of events. Air Traffic Control not as alert as they should be, and two aircraft at that collision point in the vastness of space at 36,000 feet. It must call into question the safety of the operational flight levels of traffic covering routes that cross. Our thoughts and sympathies must be with all the families who have suffered this grievous loss. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Ben_Chiu Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 2. "RE: Aircrash" 07-02-02, 23:31z  Greetings Guido: Do you know whether ATC in charge of that area is privatized or run by the government? I just read a story (well, yet another) about some near misses and plain old screw ups in the UK and since it's being proposed to privatize ATC here in the US, it'd be interesting to know how other countries are doing with it. Thanks! Ben -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.0.0 =- Registered to: Ben Chiu -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guido_Ostkamp Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 3. "RE: Aircrash" 07-03-02, 17:06z  Hi Ben, > Do you know whether ATC in charge of that area is privatized or run by > the government? The company who is in charge in this area (mainly Switzerland and some parts of Germany) is SkyGuide. It has been privatized in 1996, but ATC was formerly run by the same organization under a different name, owned by state, so I think the people are the same. Read more about this (in English language) at http://www.skyguide.ch/scripts/asp/welcome_e.asp. Regards, Guido -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

James Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 4. "RE: Aircrash" 07-03-02, 17:09z  Hi Ben et al, News today confirmed that the said Controllers have gone Private (you take it from there). It has also been stated that the TCAS on the ground was switched off for maintenance!! All flight deck recorders are now in Germany being scrutanised. With the UK part's of this have gone private and I'm just waiting for one mega mess up over here! Regards, James (CONman) Anderson -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.0.0 =- Registered to: James Anderson -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Guido_Ostkamp Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 5. "RE: Aircrash" 07-12-02, 15:51z  Hi, > It further seems, that at least one plane if not both had activated > their automatic traffic approach warnings and tried an emergency > descent which brought them on collision course again. investigations regarding this aircrash have shown that both aircrafts had their anti-collision system activated, one was instructed to descend and the other one to climb. That would have been ok, but the pilot of the plane which should climb, followed instructions from ATC to descend, so that the crash happened. What do the FAA rules state regarding this? What has priority, the instructions of the anti-collision systems or those from ATC? Regards, Guido -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Ben_Chiu Certificates/Ratings/Crew Stations: 6. "RE: Aircrash" 07-12-02, 17:16z  Greetings Guido: > What do the FAA rules state regarding this? What has priority, the > instructions of the anti-collision systems or those from ATC? The buck stops with PIC (Pilot in Command). I don't think there is any rule about having to listen to the TCAS. Perhaps there's a lesson to be learned here. Ben -= VPC OffLine Reader Version 1.1.0.0 =- Registered to: Ben Chiu -OLR.PL v1.76- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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