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"GEForce 4 Problem"

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MarkMcMaster[Guest]

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 "GEForce 4 Problem"
06-28-02, 22:06z 

Hi All,

Finally got the OLR installed and running properly.

I've installed a Siluro GEForce4 MX440 video card from Abit, replacing my antique TNTPro, but while frame rates are much improved, the card irregularly locks up whilst running FS2002.

It seems to be a DirectX problem, since the same thing happens w/ CFS2, has happened once in Links 2000, and even the WinXP 3D screensaver! When it locks, only a Reset will unlock the computer, everything is locked tight. DirectXDiag reports no problems.

I'm running WinXP Home, with the latest reference drivers from Nvidia (2.9.4.2). I've tried 4 sets of drivers, 2 of the ref drivers from Nvidia & 2 from Abit, to no avail. Disabling Table Fog Emulation seemed to've helped somewhat.

Is anyone running a GEForce 4 MMX successfully, and if so what is disabled/enabled that I've missed? I think I've thrown most of the suspect switches but there are a LOT of possible configurations, many of which I suspect don't apply to FS.

I'm about to return this card, replacing it with the PNY GEForce3 Ti220 that Norm has raved about, but I may well end up supplying 'tech support' for a friend with a GEForce4 MMX when he installs FS2002 in the not too distant future, so I'd like to be forearmed. Besides, I HATE being stumped by something like this <g>.

Mark


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  Table of Contents

  Subject      Author      Message Date     ID   
  RE: GEForce 4 Problem Ben_Chiu[Admin] 06-29-02 1
   RE: GEForce 4 Problem MarkMcMaster[Guest] 06-29-02 2
        RE: GEForce 4 Problem Ben_Chiu[Admin] 06-29-02 3
             RE: GEForce 4 Problem MarkMcMaster[Guest] 06-30-02 7
                  RE: GEForce 4 Problem Ben_Chiu[Admin] 07-01-02 10
                       RE: GEForce 4 Problem MarkMcMaster[Guest] 07-02-02 11
                            RE: GEForce 4 Problem Ben_Chiu[Admin] 07-02-02 12
                                 RE: GEForce 4 Problem MarkMcMaster[Guest] 07-03-02 13
                                      RE: GEForce 4 Problem Ben_Chiu[Admin] 07-04-02 14
        RE: GEForce 4 Problem awheeler[Guest] 06-29-02 4
             RE: GEForce 4 Problem Ben_Chiu[Admin] 06-30-02 5
             RE: GEForce 4 Problem vgbaron[Sysop] 06-30-02 6
             RE: GEForce 4 Problem MarkMcMaster[Guest] 06-30-02 8
             RE: GEForce 4 Problem James[Sysop] 07-01-02 9
                  RE: GEForce 4 Problem Dom_Hogan[Guest] 07-10-02 15

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Ben_Chiu[Admin]

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 1. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
06-29-02, 04:01z 

Greetings Mark:

Glad you got the OLR all setup.

Can you tell us which motherboard you're running, whether you're running a second video card, and whether you've tried turning down the video acceleration slider?

Thanks!

Ben


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 2. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
06-29-02, 21:18z 

Hi Ben,

Well, I **THOUGHT** I knew what I was doing in the OLR. Didn't realze it purged read messages automatically, so when I read your answer and then went off to tweak my computer, I came back to find I couldn't easily reply. So I'll copy & paste this online.

In any case, to answer your questions, as best I recall them:

The machine is a P3 850 w/ an Asus P2B mobo. 512M of memory. No second vid card. I'm running 1024x768 32-bit screen resolution. Turning the accelerator slider down may've helped at the 'disable DirectX' setting, but didn't at the less agressive settings.

You gave me an idea, and I went prowling around the BIOS. There I found both Video Bios Cache and Video Ram Cache disabled. Flipped those switches and since then I've made a couple of flights w/ FS & flown a mission in CFS2 w/o a lockup. Early days yet, as I say it hasn't been predictable, but certainly encouraging.

Thanks for the help.
Mark

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Ben_Chiu[Admin]

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 3. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
06-29-02, 21:45z 

Greetings Mark:

> Well, I **THOUGHT** I knew what I was doing in the OLR. Didn't realze it
> purged read messages automatically, so when I read your answer and then
> went off to tweak my computer, I came back to find I couldn't easily
> reply. So I'll copy & paste this online.

The default setting on the OLR is to automatically mark messages read, so if you have the New Messages Only radio button enabled, messages will "disappear" once you've seen them. To make them "reappear", select "All Threads." Personally, I disable auto mark messages read (under the Options menu) and I think we'll disable that by default in the next release as it seems to cause too much confusion leaving it enabled.


> In any case, to answer your questions, as best I recall them:
>
> The machine is a P3 850 w/ an Asus P2B mobo. 512M of memory. No second
> vid card. I'm running 1024x768 32-bit screen resolution. Turning the
> accelerator slider down may've helped at the 'disable DirectX' setting,
> but didn't at the less agressive settings.

I run a similar setup (P2B mobo has really been a workhorse). Which bios are you running? Two other things come to mind; if I recall correctly the P2B only as a 1x or 2x AGP slot, so it's choking your GF4 card (which I believe is a 4x card); the P2B is a 100mHz FSB and to run at 850, you must be overclocking, so perhaps your AGP slot may be running too fast.


> You gave me an idea, and I went prowling around the BIOS. There I found
> both Video Bios Cache and Video Ram Cache disabled. Flipped those
> switches and since then I've made a couple of flights w/ FS & flown a
> mission in CFS2 w/o a lockup. Early days yet, as I say it hasn't been
> predictable, but certainly encouraging.

Very good. Keep us posted.


Ben

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 7. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
06-30-02, 19:00z 

Ben,

> The default setting on the OLR

Yes, I see that now. Simple really, but I hadn't tried that radio button.

> P2B mobo has really been a workhorse

Here I'm red-faced. Answered out of habit w/o engaging brain. I'm running an Abit BE6-II on this machine, having 'retired' the P2B to my wife's machine when I upgraded to the P3. So no, it's not over clocked. BIOS on this is 6.00PG.

I have now managed to lock the machine once since altering the BIOS settings. That time it occurred when setting up a flight and the Cessna's preview view locked. Didn't even get in the air that time <g>.

Will continue to experiment.

Mark

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 10. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
07-01-02, 22:22z 

Greetings Mark:

> Here I'm red-faced. Answered out of habit w/o engaging brain. I'm
> running an Abit BE6-II on this machine, having 'retired' the P2B to my
> wife's machine when I upgraded to the P3. So no, it's not over clocked.
> BIOS on this is 6.00PG.

I had a look at Abit's website and your BE6-II is a BX chipset motherboard (e.g. running at 100mHz FSB). The latest bios listed on their site for BE6-II version 2.0 is 72 (perhaps 7.2?). http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/download_content.jsp?pTITLE=BE6-II+V2.0&#

Based on what I'm reading here, version 6 (their numbering "VI") of their bios only supported CPU's up to 633.

Hope this helps.

Ben


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 11. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
07-02-02, 21:48z 

Ben,

> I had a look at Abit's website and your BE6-II is a BX chipset
> motherboard (e.g. running at 100mHz FSB). The latest bios listed on
> their site for BE6-II version 2.0 is 72 (perhaps 7.2?).
> http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/download_content.jsp?pTITLE=BE6-II+V2.0&#
>
> Based on what I'm reading here, version 6 (their numbering "VI") of
> their bios only supported CPU's up to 633.

Thanks, I hadn't considered that aspect. There's some confusion on the Abit site, with a BE6 II, a BE6 II v 1.2 and that BE6 II v2. My manual and the board itself definitely ref simply BE6 II, but I dl'd that flash and got an error message ('flash not compatible w/ your system' or something similar. So I've pulled the one you pointed out and will try that as well, but in this heat wave we're having in the Northeast US and the AC cycling on and off, I'm reluctant to try flashing again just now.

My current BIOS is listed as supporting up to P3 800's (which struck me as odd at the time but was the latest then available).

For the record, I tried Al Wheeler's suggestion of changing the AGP port setting, well, sort of <g>. Mine too was at the default of 64M, so I thought I'd see if setting it to 128M made things worse .... in fact it seemed to HELP!

The PNY GEF3 Ti200 arrived yesterday, so installed it last evening and pulled the GEF4. Frame rates aren't *quite* as good w/ the sliders maxed out, but tweaking them just a bit seems to be enough. Flight is fluid and the display effects are better (sun reflection on the water was gone w/ the GEF4, but back in the GEF3. Clouds seem better.) It doesn't fight w/ my monitor as the GEF4 did (a flickering on boot where the monitor tried to reset itself 2 or 3 times).

Most importantly I've experienced only one lockup after nearly a dozen flights in FS and several missions in CFS2. In that instance I probably threw too much at the card, trying to touch down in a bad crosswind, the plane pitched at a severe angle just before touchdown and I tried a last minute correction. The FAA may want to talk to me <g>.

So my personal problems may be solved and I may now know enough to get my friend up and running when he loads FS. Of course it may've been symptomatic of the Siluro brand and he may have no probs at all.

Many thanks for your help. This OLR isn't OzWin but the level of intelligent conversation and help (not to mention all the familiar faces) sure are reminiscent of the old FSForum on CIS.

Mark


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 12. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
07-02-02, 23:23z 

Greetings Mark:

> Many thanks for your help.

Well, I really didn't do anything, but I'm glad you feel like you've got a handle on it.


> This OLR isn't OzWin

To be fair, let's not forget that this is only version 1 and that an OLR for a web-based forum didn't exit just a couple of months ago. If folks show an interest in using the VPC OLR and continue to support its development by becoming VPC Crew members, upgrades will come at a faster pace. Considering that OzWin cost a lot more to register, had a much larger audience, and has been in development for a much longer period of time, well, I don't think we've done such a bad job for a first release.


> but the level of
> intelligent conversation and help (not to mention all the familiar
> faces) sure are reminiscent of the old FSForum on CIS.

That's high praise, Mark. Thank you. Now if we can get those still MIA from CiS and MSN back into the fold...

Ben


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 13. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
07-03-02, 21:02z 

Hi Ben,

> To be fair, let's not forget that this is only version 1 and that an OLR
> for a web-based forum didn't exit just a couple of months ago. ..
>I don't think we've done such a bad job for a first release.

Just to be clear, I wasn't criticizing in comparing to OzWin. I know just enough about how this is working to be amazed that it's working <vbg>! I think it's quite good for a totally new concept.

> That's high praise, Mark. Thank you. Now if we can get those still MIA
> from CiS and MSN back into the fold...

Well, those of us on CIS exchanged email addresses toward the very end, so I expect an email to those who haven't found VPC already might help. There are a very few left on SimPilot Forum, but it's virtually dead.

Mark

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 14. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
07-04-02, 18:01z 

Greetings Mark:

> Just to be clear, I wasn't criticizing in comparing to OzWin. I know
> just enough about how this is working to be amazed that it's working
> <vbg>! I think it's quite good for a totally new concept.

Thanks for the clarification, Mark. I know the guys appreciate the comparison to OzWin.


> > That's high praise, Mark. Thank you. Now if we can get those still MIA
> > from CiS and MSN back into the fold...
>
> Well, those of us on CIS exchanged email addresses toward the very end,
> so I expect an email to those who haven't found VPC already might help.

That's a good idea. If anyone notices any former CiS or MSN regulars "conspicuous by their absence" please drop them a note and let them know where we are and what we're up to.


> There are a very few left on SimPilot Forum, but it's virtually dead.

As is MSN/ZDNet's FlightSim Forum. We hope that people come to realize that our best chance of having a thriving community reminiscent of the old FSFORUM is much better with sysops who regularly "worked the lines" being in charge of things rather than at one of the large, soulless corporations that are managed by nameless and faceless "suits" that are not familiar with the folks that use their services.


Ben


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 4. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
06-29-02, 22:24z 

Mark,

Just a thought if you have any further lockups. I used to run a P2B M/B with a GEForce 2 and had intermittant lockups from time to time. Changing the Graphics Aperture size down to 16MB (64 is default) cured the problem. It didn't seem to have any effect on video quality or speed as I expected it to. Something to experiment with maybe.

Al Wheeler

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 5. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
06-30-02, 03:07z 

Greetings Al!

Good to see you!

Folks, meet Al Wheeler, the artisan behind the Central California Coast scenery we're so fond of.

Ben


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 6. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
06-30-02, 17:28z 

Welcome Al -

I really enjoy your work!

Vic Baron


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 8. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
06-30-02, 19:00z 

Al,

> Changing the Graphics Aperture size down to 16MB (64 is default) cured
> the problem.

Thanks, I'll give that a try

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 9. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
07-01-02, 20:03z 

Hi Al,

Welcome aboard :-) and neat scenery :-)

Regards,

James (CONman) Anderson


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 15. "RE: GEForce 4 Problem"
07-10-02, 02:00z 

Hi Mark. I'm looking for a card to go with my new P4 (2gig). In looking around I found this reference to the MX series being not completely directx8 compliant. Perhaps this is contributing to your problems.

http://www.tweak3d.net/reviews/msi/ti4600/

Cheers, Dom (YSSY)

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